20: Entrepreneurship with Dr. Yashika Dooley

Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast—a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast, you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it, and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to uplevel your money and your life. I'm your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.  

Today, I have a special guest. I have Dr. Yashika Dooley. She is a fellowship-trained, board-certified urogynecologist. So why do I have her on today? Well, I have her on today for a few reasons. You know, back in an earlier episode where I talk about thinking beyond your clinical income and the following episode, I talk about getting your side gig on. And so I find that a lot of physicians have trouble with, “Well, I don't know what else I would do besides what I do right now in medicine.” But I want to say that a lot of us, we're always thinking about problems we're solving, or we're already doing something and now you can make a business out of it.

And so, Dr. Dooley is such a great example of this because she found herself just naturally being that sort of coach and mentor for other physicians, especially as a physician, a woman of color, and a military trained physician, and she really yearned for community. And so she basically went on to solve that problem for herself by creating a community called Thrive Together Conference, or Thrive2G, which is an annual conference for physician women of color. And so I wanted her to be on the show to kind of just talk about her journey because when you listen to most entrepreneurs’s journeys, I don't think any of them just woke up one day thinking that we're going to start a business. But they did wake up, you know, thinking about a problem or an idea, and then they made it a reality. She's such a great example of someone who still works full time clinically and was able to develop a side gig while working full time and having young children. So for those of you thinking that you're too busy or that you don't have any ideas, you're going to want to listen to this episode. So let's get going.

BONNIE: Welcome to the show Dr. Yashika Dooley. 

DOOLEY: Hello. How are you? Thanks for having me.

BONNIE: I'm so excited you're on the show today. 

DOOLEY: I am excited to be here. We got lots to talk about. 

BONNIE: Yeah. I'm super excited that you're here because I think you're a great example of a woman physician entrepreneur. And I just feel like we can never have enough examples to see what else is possible.

DOOLEY: Yes, that's definitely true. And the more there are, the more we can elevate one another. I think the more that we can push one another. And so it's always good to see examples of what we can do and how far we can go. 

BONNIE: Yeah. Tell us a little bit about yourself in terms of the doctor, part of you.

DOOLEY: I am an active duty Air Force Officer. I do OB GYN specifically. I am board certified in urogynecology, and I work with residents in San Antonio, Texas. So I am seeing women all day every day, but really I am training other residents and also medical students how to be amazing doctors and female pelvic surgeons. 

BONNIE: Awesome. And so how does your business fit in? Like right now, what's a snapshot in terms of how much time you're spending between business and your clinical.

DOOLEY: Right now, this time of year, because I'm getting ready for my conference, it's probably about 50/50. In general when I'm not doing the conference and I'm just doing coaching, I'm probably doing about 30% of my time is coaching and a lot of that is like evenings and weekends because I am full time clinical otherwise, taking calls with the residents and all of that. So it's a pretty busy clinical schedule.

BONNIE: You're still practicing full time. And this side gig is truly a side gig right now.

DOOLEY: Yes. The side gig is truly a side gig right now.

BONINE: Tell us about what your side gig is. And when did you start?

DOOLEY: Actually I think coaching physicians forever. One of the biggest problems, especially in the military is that because we go all over the world, not just the country, it is very hard for particularly women physicians of color, to find community. You can come right out of residency and we are going to deploy you. You might go to Afghanistan or you might go to Germany or Israel. There's so many places. And so over the years, it's just been very hard for us to maintain close contact and have some kind of community. And so I was constantly struggling to find a way to build that community, to have sponsorship and mentorship for these women. Just because we are such a mobile population. We are moving every few years. That's just what the military does, and so you're never in one place. 

Building that community has always been my goal. And over the past two years, I wanted to be able to bring us all back into one place. I felt like we really needed to be able to see one another, put eyes on one another, and really have that closeness in the same room that we just weren't being able to get even though we were doing lots of things virtually before. A year ago, I had my first conference, and it was in September. We did it live in San Antonio and it was four days. And really focusing on physician women of color has been kind of my journey and what I try to develop over the past five to six years. 

BONNIE: Yeah. What's the name of your conference?

DOOLEY: It is Physician Women of Color Thrive Together or Thrive2G is kind of like the hashtag that you see. And like I tell women, it is open to everybody, but really that topics that we focus on, what we're talking, about has to do with women of color, but it is open to anybody who wants to learn, to be a fly on the wall, who wants to be an ally. Because I think a lot of the topics, especially now, the topics that are coming up in our world, we are discussing in that forum. And we were like, others need to be there to have those discussions with us.

BONNIE: No, absolutely. Obviously with the pandemic, live events have been thrown for a spin. And so I had a live event scheduled for this year, November of 2020. And so I've personally postponed it a whole year, no plans to promote it at this time. It's just too far ahead. And so how did you decide to pivot to a virtual versus postponing? 

DOOLEY: Well, we had already signed all of the contracts. I mean, everything was in the works to go ahead with our conference this September. And when we saw that COVID was not going to allow us to be able to do that, I still felt like now more than ever, especially with everything going on with Black Lives Matter and with the Coronavirus, all of the issues that a lot of women of color were feeling just in general, I felt like I owed it to that community for us to meet some kind of way. We really needed to be able to have an opportunity to share and to discuss and to really feel that connection with one another. Waiting a whole other year was only going to do us a disservice in the end.

BONNIE: Yeah. I think it's a tough decision, right? In business. One thing, a business, or what sort of distinguishes between someone who fails versus succeeds is our ability to pivot when life throws you a big wrench, like a pandemic. 

DOOLEY: Yeah. I mean, it was absolutely hard and it's always uncertain when you're looking at the numbers. With the last conference, I was very much by the book. I looked at the numbers. I tried to not make it a personal thing. I wanted to make sure we had a great experience, but at the same time when it's a business, you've also got to look at the financials. But when you're going into something like a virtual conference, it's a little bit harder because you're trying to bring in a lot of aspects that you can easily do in a live conference, but you're trying to still have that engagement, that energy, but with Zoom where people have already been kind of Zoomed out, it brings in this whole other level of, “Okay, can we still elevate this conference?” “Can we give them that experience?” 

And because it's not like, you know, I don't want to charge the price that we usually charge. So how do we do all of that on a much smaller budget as well? 

BONNIE: Yeah. I'm starting this business mastermind. It was supposed to kick off with a three-day live event and it's going virtual as well. And so I'm super interested to see how she does it, because I'm sure she's going to do an amazing job. And she actually is going to teach us how to create a virtual event and is giving us a backstage pass into her planning process. The same sort of thing is like, how do you create high value? Because when you're there in person, you don't just zone out and leave. But with the virtual thing, it's so easy to just go to the bathroom and just get distracted. 

Tell us a little bit, since this is a money show, tell us a bit, how have your money beliefs changed since you started going into business? Where were you in the beginning? 

DOOLEY: In the beginning, I think my biggest money belief is Are people going to pay? How much will they pay? Is that a fair price? How can I offer enough value for the price that I'm coming up with? 

Oftentimes it was hard, especially when I have a lot of medical students and residents, and I've been a medical student and resident and you have this idea. In my mind, I'm like I had no money. Those years were so hard financially. And now how can I charge these medical students and residents who need to be in the room with all of these amazing staff physicians? How do I allow them in, but then still charge them whatever price. What is a fair price really? I feel like that was the biggest struggle for me. Or even like fellow new attendings just out or even now coronavirus. Right? I'm thinking, “Okay, there might've been physicians who have been out of work, their offices may have been closed for months. What does that look like?”

How do I have a sustainable business when I'm asking for certain prices, but now I'm in my mind saying, “Well, can they afford to pay it?” Like I'm all in their finances now trying to think, “Is that fair? Is that right? Oh my God, I feel guilty.” And I learned with the last conference that I just really can't do that. And the other things that you see people buy, right? And you just know that people will pay for what they find valuable. And that's not for me to decide. So all I can do is make an amazing conference and know that the value is there. 

My goal is to try to tell them what about this conference, what they're going to walk away with, what problem this is solving, how they're going to get this community and connection and the knowledge that they're not going to find any place else. And then they have to decide if that's valuable to them. That's not for me to do. And that was the biggest thing of being able, just to step back and say, “This is my offer. This is the amazing thing that I can give you,” but they have to decide if they want that amazing thing or not. And it's just not personal. And sometimes it's really hard to remember. It's not personal. 

BONNIE: I love what you said about how it's not up to you to determine the value. Cause that's something I teach inside my course, because I think a lot of us think that we determine the value. Some people don't even know what value means necessarily because it's not a word that's used, I think, in mainstream so much. But you know, we both know that money comes from value and not from times or effort, et cetera. And so absolutely it's the customer who determines the value. So you make the best products you can. Tell us a bit about your coaching business. So that's a little different, right? 

DOOLEY: Yes. My coaching is particularly for physicians. I've always coached physician women. I find now I do a little bit more physician women of color specifically. And I think that's just because there are a lot of things that all women share. There's a lot of things that women physicians share. But I think as you add the layers, there are some special things that physician women of color go through and experience that not every woman physician is going to. It's easier sometimes to make that connection and understand the subtle nuances that occur in our day to day, when you are seeing patients in the hospital, even professionals and peers, things happen. And sometimes having somebody that already gets it and you don't have to explain to them, all those nuances makes it an easier way to coach at the same time.

I think that sometimes I have to remember and always focus on not being so much in it, being able to hold space and not automatically wanting to validate whatever they feel has happened, because that is also hard when you've experienced a lot of those same things. When you feel like, “Yes, that happened to me too.” So it's that fine balance. But I find a lot of times, especially for physician women of color, they find it easier to start their coaching with somebody who gets those nuances and not always having to explain to them why that was a problem or why they were hurt by that situation. 

I think it's much easier now as we’ve done Black Lives Matter this year, especially so many things have been brought to light, but in years past, I think a lot of that was very hush-hush, very under the cover. We didn't talk about it as readily. And so when things would come up, people didn't always understand that that can be an issue or why that might've been an issue. 

BONNIE: Absolutely. I think people, especially if it's their first foray into coaching, I think we just automatically think someone that looks like us coaches, it's just like this extra familiarity type of thing. Right? And as a coach, we know that holding space is important and to my listeners, how would you explain it to a non-coaching audience? It's about sort of letting them say what they say, but not necessarily, like you said, validating everything immediately. Like it's important to validate, but that's not exactly what a coach does.

DOOLEY: Right. And I think it's kind of like the difference between, like, if you're telling something to a good friend, like they're on your side automatically. Like no matter what you say, they're there for you. They're like, “Absolutely. Yes. I understand.” They're ready to fight the fight with you. Whereas a coach is really more there to listen, but also help you explore what that story is maybe just your thoughts. What actually are the things that happened and what maybe you can explore some more? Like where are the areas where your thoughts about it might be coloring your opinion of the situation. 

BONNIE: So what are your plans for this side gig and your clinical practice? I think a lot of people think that people who have side gigs like you and me are trying to quit medicine,

right? And so I don't know what your goals are, whatever you're comfortable sharing. 

DOOLEY: My goal right now is I am retiring from the military. So I will be at 22 years in February of 22. That has always been outside of the side gig. I was always going to retire. And my idea was then that I would continue to do clinical medicine, but at a slower pace, mainly because I have a seven and a nine year old and I just wanted to be more available to them. And anybody that knows medicine is hard, but especially with OB GYN, it's very unpredictable and lots of 24 hour shifts, 36 hour shifts, on call, post-call. I wanted to be able to back away from that a little bit just while my kids were young and then being able to supplement with my coaching had always been my idea.

So that changes constantly as my kids get older. And now with coronavirus, you look at things a little bit differently. But when I look forward, I see that that's still what I would do. So probably 30% clinical and 70% my coaching business in the next two to three years. 

BONNIE: Yeah. How did you discover coaching? 

DOOLEY: I discovered coaching through, I think first was probably Katrina Ubell’s podcast that I had been listening to and heard people talking about. And that led me to Brooke Castillo and listening to her podcast and then signing up for the Life Coach School. I think I found them both at a time where I was really struggling with my satisfaction in medicine, struggling with having young kids. Feeling like I was not able to be with them the way that I always thought I would be able to be as a mother, and just struggling with my identity as a physician and knowing that what I thought it would be like when I got to this point was not what was actually happening in my day to day. And I was just really depressed. 

I worked so hard to be here to be like a fellowship-trained doctor and I would just talk to my husband and be like, “I can kind of walk away tomorrow and be okay.” And just was very sad about that and had a lot of discussions with him about why that was and what could I do differently. I was just pleasantly surprised when I started listening to Brooke Castillo’s podcast and just learning how a lot of what I was thinking about my job and my day to day experience was really coloring my ability to enjoy what I had always thought would be my dream job. 

BONNIE: What you said it's such a common thing that I hear in terms of how people discover coaching. Are you at the same job that you were when all that was going?

DOOLEY: Yes, I’m at the exact same job, exact same place. Nothing’s changed. 

BONNIE: Just your thinking, right?

DOOLEY: Yeah, it really is my thinking because all the people around me are the same, but really it is my thinking. It is my reaction to everything that happens. The things that used to bother me. And they really are when I look back now minor, but when you're in clinical practicing, seeing people every 30 minutes, having somebody come in 15 minutes late is like a disruption in your day. And it would be stuff like that where I just was taking everything personally. Like my patients don't respect my time. The fact that I haven't been able to do X, Y, and Z, I really was making every single thing, a personal affront to me. And I think that was making me so angry. And when I was able to kind of step back and be like, “They’re just late. Things happen.” It wasn't about me. It wasn't about them not respecting me. I was able to really be able to enjoy just being with the patient and having those patient encounters again, because that's why I went into medicine. I wanted to just be able to connect and help women. And that is what I have lost over the years.

BONNIE: Yeah. I really love that you said that. Because I feel like, like I said earlier, a lot of people I think are looking for side gigs because they are trying to get out of an unhappy situation. And I think you really nailed it. As one of my other coaching friends was telling me how her coach told her that she can't leave her job until stops hating it, or, you know, cause you don't want to leave a job thinking the grass is greener because wherever you go, you take yourself with you.

DOOLEY: Yeah. And then you'll find out the next place is just as bad. You're like, okay, now I don't like this one for whatever reason. So yeah, I think that is so true. And it was great that I had the opportunity to be in this same job. I mean, one I'm in the military, so I couldn't just leave, but it forced me to really look at my situation and follow every single thing that Brooke talks about because there was no other option. And I was like, I am going to really put this to the ultimate test because there was no backing out. And it was amazing just to see how nothing changed outside of me. But my viewpoint, the way that I walk into my office, the way that I experience my clinical practice is completely changed. And that is what I try to tell people that it can be. That it can be that and you don't have to leave, but you've got to be willing to figure out what the problem is and give yourself time to work through it. Because it doesn't happen overnight. I'm not going to say that. It definitely was a process, but every day I can see a little bit of a change. And that little bit of the change is what gave me hope to keep going. 

BONNIE: Yeah. I'm wondering if anyone listening is a little confused, cause I'm a little confused. So tell me how the conference and the coaching kind of came together. Like the conference thing come first, and then later on you became a coach? Are they separate businesses? 

DOOLEY: They started off as separate businesses and they have slowly started to merge. So I've always coached women just because I'm a staff physician. Right? And so part of what we do is we mentor and we help our junior colleagues. The problem that I was having is one, I was dissatisfied in my own job. So how can you talk to medical students and residents about this amazing profession when you and yourself are just like, “Oh my God, I hate it.” But also people were coming to me with real issues and I was struggling with a way to really talk to them and help them when I knew that my way was not the only way. And I wanted to be able to give them valuable resources, but I just wasn't sure how, especially when they weren't in my field. A lot of times they were just coming to me cause I was another staff in the hospital, another woman of color, but like they were urology or ophthalmology or dermatology, and I'm like, “I really don't know how to help you.” So that was the great thing about when I went through Brooke Castillo's program, she gives you those tools. And so I was able to use that specifically for the coaching. 

The conference came about just because I wanted to be able to get all of us in a room. There are so few times where you see other physician women of color. I mean, I've been in my hospital since 2007 and I can count on one hand how many other women staff there have been. There's like maybe five since 2007. And so when you rarely see another woman that looks like you as a physician, you yearn for that community. You yearn to be able to see all those people in the same room. And that's really what the conference was about. Getting all of us together in the room, just so we can share. And just so we can talk and relax and be able to share experiences. 

I mean, I'm kind of, because I live in San Antonio, right? So there aren't a lot of women of color or a community of color in this area. So that was also one thing that I was struggling with that I had not experienced in that same way when I lived in Chicago or when I lived in Washington DC. So they both evolved out of my own need to fill a void that I personally was experiencing. And when I talked to other women, they were also having that same experience. 

BONNIE: I think this is an amazing example of how a business idea starts. First of all, it probably was just an idea, not so much thinking like, “Oh, let's start a business and let's do this.” Right. It was probably just like, “I need this and I want this.” And you just, it kind of came out of your heart. I call these heart-centered businesses. Right? 

And so were you pretty clear in the beginning that this was going to be a business? Or were you just doing this at first Because you wanted it and then later on, you're like, “Oh, this is also a business.” I think a lot of us have trouble with “this is a business” aspect. 

DOOLEY: Yeah. I did not think it was going to be a business. Actually, when I first started the conference and my husband was asking me about it, I was like, “This is like our wedding.” I planned a wedding, it was at a hotel room. We got a conference room, we got some food. We ordered a couple of, some blocks of rooms for all of our guests. And literally that is how I went into it because I was like, I had no idea how many people were going to show up. There was nothing formal. And so it was really by word of mouth. I told them, I was like, “I'm not going to break the bank. I would just like to break even.” And so if I can just have some women come and we can just experience a weekend together. That was really my only goal. And a lot of the people that I invited were people that live across the country, but they were people that I already knew. And so I was just inviting them all to come. Very much like, “I'm having a gathering. Come to my wedding” and that in my mind was like my thoughts. And so I think it made it easier too because I'm like I had a wedding, I was able to do that. 

So every step along the way, I tried to just think of a way to problem solve whatever was going on and saying, “Okay, I've done something like this before. So I should be able to use that same concept, tweak it a little bit and then use it in this situation.” And that really helped me because I've never thrown a conference. Right? I've never had negotiations about room blocks and food and all of these things, but I figured it can't be that much different than throwing any other event. And for me, that event was my wedding at a hotel. 

BONNIE: As someone who's planning a conference, I didn't realize how much behind the scenes goes on in terms of all the money has to put down. 

DOOLEY: Yeah. Lots and lots of money. 

BONNIE: Yeah. And I had a lot of requests for my retreat to not stay at the hotel. And then some people were actually not so nice about it saying like, I should let them stay wherever they want, but then I don't think they realized that I'm responsible for a certain number of rooms.

DOOLEY: Whether people show up, come, don't come, you have to sell a certain amount of rooms too. 

BONNIE: So I'm curious, do you allow people to stay off site? But yours is a larger conference--I know you're not having the conference this year--versus mine that is a retreat. So it's a smaller number. 

DOOLEY: I did not. So part of it was the location was very isolated. And so I told them to be able to have the full experience, you really need to be at the hotel. I tried to price it reasonably so that would not be the deal breaker for them. But I also left it at the end of the day up to them. Right? I mean, it wasn't a complete package. It was separate. So you could clearly buy your ticket to the conference and stay wherever. A lot of people in San Antonio did not stay at the hotel at all. Right? So that was fine too. But I knew in my heart, the location was amazing and the location was a part of the experience. I knew when they walked in the door, they were going to get it. And that's another one of those things where they just have to experience that for themselves. I posted the pictures, I told them about it, but again, their decision about what's valuable is on them. And I just had to let that part go. 

And that's where I became very clear with my numbers. And I just made it to the point where bare bones numbers, I hit this, I will break even. And that was my only goal. And so it made a little bit easier that I didn't have to make $50,000 or $60,000. My goal was just to get the women in the room. If I can just cover my costs, I'm fine. And really, I negotiated super hard with that hotel for every single thing. I did lots and lots of research and comparisons and really leveraged my ability to continue to say, “That's not gonna work. That's not gonna work.” And just going back, like for me, I had nothing to lose. At the end of the day, I'm like, well, “I just don't have the conference.” 

If I can't break, even then, I'm just not going to have a conference and that helped me be able to continue to go back and really continue to cut my numbers to make it where I was absolutely going to break even. 

BONNIE: I should take a lesson from you. I don't know how much I negotiated for the room rate. It's funny, I'm a money person, but I'm not a negotiation person. That's a different skillset. At least I tell myself that. And so I was like, “Huh, maybe I didn't negotiate.” 

DOOLEY: Yeah. I mean, I just track the rooms. I did not sign my contract. They gave me a little bit of time for us to kind of think about it. And we were all going back and we had like a big package for like all the food and everything. And so during that time though, I was just tracking room rates and even went back and looked at room rates for that time the year before. And I could see like the specials that they had, the coupon deals that they had. And I just brought that data to them and just said, “Okay, in September you are typically booked this much in September. This is like your room rate. I can see around this time last year, these were the rooms that you all offered.” And so when I brought in that data, it was very easy for them to then adjust. 

And I think I also had a very good assistant that I was working with. I think she also believed in what I was selling. I had explained to her my vision for the conference. So I think she had also bought into the idea that this was going to be a great experience. And I told her, “I would love to be able just to work with this hotel. This is an amazing hotel.” And so it was really for both of us about a partnership and making it work long term. It wasn't like a one and done for them either. So it was going to be a win, win for everybody. If we could make it come and make that vision really come to life and enjoy it. 

BONNIE: So was it going to be at that same hotel this year until COVID?

DOOLEY: Uh huh. We had already signed our contracts. And again, it was really nice because we had such a great experience last year. They actually called me and let me out of that contract. I didn't have to sign for next year. And I told them I'm in for 2021. They gave me my full deposit back. I've heard a lot of people have issues this year, especially with like contracts and all of that and losing money. And I think because I had such a great relationship with them last year, they called me and said, “We are not going to be able to have groups of your size and we're going to cancel the contract. You don't have to sign anything or you don't have to transfer your money over for next year. We're going to give you a deposit back.” And then they're like, “We're going to pick this back up once we have a better idea of what's going on.” That showed me that they were really on my side too. It really was the best of all worlds, especially when I talk to other people who are struggling with their contracts this year.

BONNIE: Yeah. I feel like we're gonna have to pick your brain offline about doing a live event. What would be your top tips for any female physician who has the idea about side gigs? I don't know what you feel or think, too, but I feel like there are a lot of female physicians who have ideas. They are afraid to make it reality. They have a lot of limiting beliefs about the side gigs, the profitability, et cetera. So what tips would you say to them? 

DOOLEY: One, if you are a physician, you are amazing and you have accomplished some big things, right? And so you just need to hone in on those skills and like leverage the hell out of them. Leverage your skills and your relationships. We have all worked hard to get to this place. We are all usually Type A, driven, overcommitted, overdedicated. And if you can take those skills that you learned in medical school and residency and fellowship, and being a staff, you bring all of that to the table. Now you just have to transfer it to this business arena, which is really not that hard if you realize what you're good at. So just leveraging your skills and your relationships. We have so many relationships. So leveraging those two and realizing those also transfer, you're not starting from ground zero.

And sometimes you feel like, “I've never done business, so I’m starting at the bottom.” I'm like, “Hell no, you’re not! You’re bringing all that! You’re just transferring it to a new area.” And that's what's going to get you the momentum to go and go really far and fast. 

BONNIE: So funny. I have an upcoming episode with Dr. Una, we're going to talk about entrepreneurship in general. We're actually going to talk about the inherent traits that physicians have that make us great at business. Like you said, our ability to work hard and like really put an effort I think is huge. But there are also common pitfalls because of our physician Type A personality. So we'll list those in the upcoming episodes. So that's definitely one of the things right. There is our ability to work hard because that is important for business. Anything else you want to say to any female physician entrepreneurs out there looking to start a side gig? 

DOOLEY: I would say to just do it, right? What's the worst that can happen? I think that's always what I tell myself. What's the worst that can happen? And nine times out of 10, the worst that can happen never happened. And so just think of it that way and just try it. If you had never tried to be a doctor, where would we be? 

And the fact that a lot of us never had physicians in our family, we never saw what that would be like, but there was never a doubt in our minds that we would be a doctor regardless of what happened for all the years that it took us to be there. The goal was always very clear. And if you had that same idea in your mind for business, you'll be amazing. There's just no doubt in my mind. 

BONNIE: Yeah. That's also true. It's a good point because if you think of just like the funnel we had to get to even become attendings, and then I don't know what your background is, but I was the first physician in my family. So I had no one else to like model myself after. 

DOOLEY: Yeah. Again, the thing is we didn't need it. Right? You knew you wanted to be a doctor. So I didn't need anybody to model it. You're like, “That's my goal. And I'm just going to figure it out.” And I had no idea about fellowship when I was a medical student. I just want to get through medical school. And then when you do that, then you do the next thing. 

And so I think you have to have that concept and take it into business. Sometimes I think in business, we see everybody's big, amazing business with all these great funnels. And so that's the problem. You get so lost in all of those details that you don't realize that all you have to is just this one little thing and then worry about the next thing later, and then you'll be fine. 

BONNIE: That's such a good point. I also think where I see a lot of physicians get hung up is medicine is kind of like regimented, right? In terms of you do this, you go to med school, then you graduate, then you get a residency. Then, in business, there's not like one roadmap. I think a lot of doctors are trying to find that, “Oh, just give me a step by step guide so I can follow it.” But in business, you have to kind of create your own step by step guide, but just one step at a time.

DOOLEY: That's all you have to do and it'll be fine. And that's the good thing about business though. Right? You can do it again, zillion different ways and it'll still be fine. We're just so used to like, you have to go this certain way to become a doctor, but that's only in our field that has to happen. There are so many other fields where you can get there through the back door, the side door, through the roof, through the basement and that's for business. Come in any way you want, come in through the window if you want. You can still be amazing.

BONNIE: Yeah. Awesome. Well, this was so much fun, Yashika. We will definitely put links to your conference in the show notes so that everyone can take a look. It's coming up. What are the dates again? 

DOOLEY: The live dates are Friday, September the 11th and Saturday, September 12th. And we have over 30 physician women of color that are speaking and all of that will be available. It's going to be on a Kajabi site, so it'll be recorded. You can rewatch it. And regardless of what your schedule is, you can totally enjoy and just come in, talk to everybody, just be in the room. That's really all it’s about being in the room and share. 

BONNIE: Yeah. So awesome. Well, thanks so much for being here.

DOOLEY: Thank you so much for having me. I really look forward to it.

Hey, if you're a woman physician who is ready to take control of your money, you've got to check out my program Money for Women Physicians. It's part course and part group coaching and a hundred percent guaranteed to put more money in your pocket. Go to wealthymommd.com/money to learn more. 

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