150: How to Use Style to Create Your Luxe Life with Judith Gaton

Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it, and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level your money and your life. I’m your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.

Hey everyone, I hope you are doing fabulously. I am so excited for you all to listen to this conversation with Judith Gaton, she is a style coach. And this was such an amazing and fun conversation. I know you’re going to love this episode because we talk about something that a lot of us don’t think much about or have given really any time and attention to style.

And she does a great job demystifying what style is and what it means and why you should care. And you’re going to learn a lot about just certain things that you may have not thought about. Anyway, I know you’re going to love it, and so let’s get started.

Bonnie: All right, Judith, I am super excited to be chatting with you.

Judith: Ditto.

Bonnie: So, I’m sure many of my listeners don’t know who you are, so introduce your awesome self.

Judith: Yeah, I’m Judith Gaton. I am a master certified coach and a personal stylist. I’m a former lawyer, I’m no longer in practice. But when I was in practice I was the managing partner of my law firm. And, yeah, I think that’s it’s in a nutshell. That’s the quick cliff notes. If you want more, let me know.

Bonnie: I know people are probably thinking, “Why is a style coach on a podcast where we predominantly talk about money?” Of course, I talk about some other things, but I have worked with Judith and I never thought I would work with a stylist. To me, stylists were for like really rich people or, I don’t know. You probably kind of know what all the preconceived notions about stylists are, right?

Judith: Yeah, I mean, that’s one of them. That it’s like for fancy people, other people.

Bonnie: Well I am fancy.

Judith: Yeah. Well, like rich people, right? So sometimes rich and fancy become synonymous, they’re not actually the same thing. And there’s this idea that you have to have reached some sort of certain socioeconomic status in order to justify having a stylist, or in order to justify being able to even work on the style stuff. It’s like, you have to have arrived at some place before your given entry into the world of style, which I think is really funny.

But I think some version of that shows up a lot for my clients because I think, like your clients, they’re smart cookies. So most of their formative years were spent getting a degree or building their career or building businesses. So by the time they arrive to a place where they meet you and I, they’re like, “Okay, I’m ready for more.”

And this sort of becomes this funny thing that’s like, “Well, I would love to do that.” And it’s like, well, you can. And they don’t realize the moment when they could because they’ve been telling themselves they can’t for years and years and years. It’s really fun to watch.

Bonnie: As you were talking I was thinking about the rise of all these, what would you call it, like curated clothing things? Because I did something like that, not the curated boxes, not like Stitch Fix. I did like the Rent the Runway stuff, I did like the cheaper version of that. It was called Le Tote or something like that. Now I do Rent the Runway, like monthly membership.

But it just seems like there’s an explosion of accessible style. Is that the best way to put it? Like Trunk Club. I’ve done Trunk Club where you “get a stylist.” Still, it was very different than my experience with you. But what are your thoughts on that?

Judith: Yeah, I mean, I see the need for it because I think the constant refrain I hear is I hate shopping, or I effing hate shopping with a passion. Like the stories and the terrible lighting. And then the pandemic and everybody had to shop online, and then the hassle of that and they didn’t even know where to shop. And let’s say you’re in a petite size body, a plus sized body, a tall body, a body of any kind, you probably have had some issues finding clothing that fits you.

So I understand at a base level why those things exist, and I kind of appreciate them for what they are. If you really hate shopping and you feel like you’re in a pinch, that might be a great place to start.

I think the problem becomes when you stop advocating for yourself with your “stylist” and you don’t tell them what you actually like or what you hate. So you keep getting more of the same stuff and then it sits in a corner and it becomes like a shame pile and you spent all this money and blah, blah, blah. So they have a little bit of utility, I think, if you use them well. That will be my only caveat.

Bonnie: Okay, well I can just speak to that because remember when you and I started working together and I showed you some like pricey pieces from one of those things and I literally never put them on. And I think they still had their tags on.

Judith: Yeah, you had some beautiful pieces but they weren’t your jam. That’s not how you actually show up in the world. You have like an outfit formula that I think of when I think of you, and it was not any of those clothes. It was kind of interesting.

Bonnie: Oh, tell me, what’s that outfit formula?

Judith: Yeah, so when I think of you, I think of a really beautiful print dress. And I think of a really cute jacket of some kind, like a jean jacket in different colors or textures over a really fabulous print dress. That’s how I see you in my mind. Like some of these were just like trousers and these really beautiful blouses. And they were nice, they were totally nice, but they didn’t match what you actually wore every day.

Bonnie: So you’re saying I should sell them? Or give them to someone who wants them?

Judith: You can pass them along. Certainly I think they could be released into the wild.

Bonnie: Who has time to sell? I don’t have time to shop, I definitely don’t have time to sell. Okay, going back to what you said even before, I feel like we can go on so many tangents.

Judith: Oh, yes.

Bonnie: One of the things I also thought of as you were talking about why people don’t hire stylists is I also wonder if people are thinking, “Who am I to even work with a stylist?” It’s almost like they have negative thoughts about, I don’t know if it’s prioritizing themselves. I think that’s what it is, but do you understand what I’m trying to say?

Judith: Yeah, so I have what I call like four leading ladies that I teach, just to kind of get an idea of where people’s hearts and minds are and this is typically how I see it show up. We have on the one hand, we call her Catherine. And top of her game, kills it at work, crushes it at work, but has gotten in sort of a style rut.

Like she wears a uniform, so to speak, and she doesn’t really feel like her outsides match how she feels about herself on the inside. So when she comes to working on this stuff, it’s almost like, am I allowed to care about this? Because it seems almost silly and frivolous.

Bonnie: Yes, that’s exactly what. This is what you do, so obviously you can say it better than I did. That’s exactly what I was thinking.

Judith: Probably 75% of my clientele are Catherines. A lot of them are Catherine. And then because we have our work from home crowd I see another version of this where like nobody sees me but me, so why does it matter?

Bonnie: Yeah.

Judith: And during the pandemic it was like, but you see you, and trying to convince a whole group of women like, but you see you. You matter. How you feel when you’re washing your hands at two o’clock on a Tuesday and you catch a glimpse of yourself in the mirror and you’re thinking, “Oh my gosh, did I walk around looking like that all day?” Yeah, it actually really does matter.

And then we have a big group of doctors in my community and, obviously, you as well, of course, coming out of the pandemic into real clothes. And I’ll put that in air quotes, again, has been interesting because a lot of their scrubs stopped fitting. So they just wore whatever the hospital provided. So they didn’t even purchase them at some point. Or they got really, really ratty, or that’s all they bought, that’s all their investment in clothing was.

And now we’re inviting them to care about their style again, and they feel like they just survived this big ordeal. Kind of a hard sell. So that’s typically where I meet the ladies I serve on this journey.

Bonnie: Oh my God, you just described that so beautifully. You know, I don’t practice anymore but I’m sure you know this because this is what you do, but now there’s all these fancy scrub companies that have come out to make it a little bit nicer looking. And the one that comes to mind that I would have tried out if I was practicing is, I believe it’s called Fabled. Have you heard of that brand?

Judith: Yes, beautiful.

Bonnie: Yeah.

Judith: They’re beautiful.

Bonnie: Aren’t they beautiful? Yeah. So I know the person who started it because she’s a physician entrepreneur. I don’t know all of them, but I know a lot of them. And, yeah, I remember telling her if I was still practicing I would love to try them. I did own Figs. And those are at least better than regular scrubs.

Judith: And Figs has come out with new lines that look more like joggers, and they have really cute tops that you could, like check it out, y’all. They’re really cute. The scrub game has definitely been up-leveled in the last few years, and rightfully so. I mean, most of your day, most of your life is spent in them. You might as well have them be cute, and comfortable, and really nice fabrics. You all deserve that after what we’ve gone through.

Bonnie: Yeah.

Judith: I think that doctors definitely deserve nicer things. But I think a lot of them are like, okay, when I’m not doing clinic I could wear some real – And I love that, real. It’s all real clothes, love, I just want to offer that. But what about real clothes, real pants. I wore real pants today. That kind of thinking.

Bonnie: I also just want to add, and again, I’m sure you know, I’m sure my listeners know, I think before the fancy scrubs that started coming out, the first fancy white coat became really popular, Medelita. And so I did have a Medelita coat. It’s like a fitted, really nice fabric. Not like that cheap, not smooth fabric.

Judith: Some of them had sleeve cuffs for the shorter peeps. So they had just like a nicer fit through the arm. I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Bonnie: Yeah, I still have mine. The only problem is I have all these really nice Figs, one or maybe two really nice white coats, but my name is embroidered, so I can’t give them to people. Do you know, is there a way to get rid of that?

Judith: You could have a nice patch made and placed over your embroidered name, if they really wanted to use them.

Bonnie: Yeah, they could probably just buy their own.

Judith: Or they could buy their own.

Bonnie: But if anyone wants them, let me know.

Judith: Love that.

Bonnie: So let’s talk about one of the questions I had before I worked with you. I was like, well, why should anyone care about style? All the points you made make sense. Like pandemic, I’m on Zoom so who cares what I’m wearing below the waist, so to speak. So why should people care about it?

Judith: Well, I mean, and it’s interesting because I think this question comes up in different ways. So I’m going to answer it in different ways, but I’m going to answer it in the most common way that I get, like this just shouldn’t matter at all.

And I think it starts with our idea of what style is, versus what our idea of fashion is. And those are two different things. And it’s worth parsing out those things from each other and separating them because on the one hand, I like to call fashion like the circus parade. It’s like the fun thing with the elephants and the fringe and the glitter and the sequins and we get to watch it go by and be spectators.

And we can decide when we want to join in to the circus and maybe wear feathers and sequins, but we don’t have to. It’s not required. We get to really enjoy the spectacle of it. Whereas style, on the other hand, is so personal. It’s your thoughts and your feelings about yourself outwardly reflected. Meaning you have a thought, it makes emotions in your body, right? A neurochemical cascade because of how you’re thinking.

And then from there, you decide how you’re going to get dressed or not get dressed. You decide what you’re going to put on your body or not put on your body.

So if I wake up and I go to a closet full of clothing that does not fit my body, you’re like, “Damn it,” right? And that feeling of frustration or just grief or whatever emotion comes up for you. And then I go get dressed for the day and then I go get ready for the day.

Or if I’m feeling rushed, I think for most of my clients rushed is the emotion that drives most of the morning. Just get ready, just get ready, just get ready because they’ve spent too much time on their phone and taking care of their fur babies and their other humans. And then they’re going to get dressed and take care of themselves from that place.

So when we think of style as personal, like thoughts and feelings outwardly reflected, then it becomes super important because then we get to take a look at our clothing, look down in our underwear drawers and how we feel at two o’clock on a Tuesday when we glimpse ourselves in the mirror. Those thoughts that come up become really important. Like how did you choose to show up today? How did you choose to take care of yourself or not today, based on what you were thinking and feeling?

And when we approach style from that frame of reference, then it becomes very important because it’s just a conduit to your heart and mind and you taking better care of yourself.

Bonnie: Oh my God, I could just listen to you all day. You’re very eloquent. I’m sure that lawyer background helped. One of my, I’m sure it’s a limiting belief, Kara actually called me out. I just feel like I’m not good with words. But anywho, I just feel like you just speak so eloquently and it’s very clear what you’re trying to convey, is what I’m trying to say.

Judith: You conveyed that just fine, my friend. And I’ve talked with you many times and you’re good with the words. You’re all right. You’re all right.

Bonnie: All right, so I just loved everything you just said. And it’s funny, because it’s been a while since we’ve worked together and so there’s certain things I haven’t thought of in a while. And maybe it wasn’t you, but I remember, it probably was you, how the first thing you said is you look in the closet and you’re like, uh, or nothing fits. And how a lot of women, whatever their bodies are, we tend to buy things that are too small for us or keep those and then not buy clothes that actually fit us.

And then I forget who said it, I’m sure you could say it in a different way. It’s like almost a form of punishment to wear clothes that are too tight for you. Can you speak about that a little bit?

Judith: Yeah, I totally think it’s punishing. I mean, it’s so interesting. So I’ll do webinars and I’ll do like whole online classes, and one of the first things I say is like, we’re going to do a body scan collectively. I can’t see you, I let them know I can’t see them. If you’re listening right now, I want you to know we can’t see you, so I want you to do it with us too.

I ask them to do a body scan and I’m like top of your head down to the tips of your toes, are you uncomfortable? And it’s so interesting to me what comes up in the chat box. It’s like my bra is so tight. I’m like, “Take it off. I can’t see you.” My pants are digging into my belly. “Well unbutton them.” I’m really cold. I actually hear this a lot. A lot of women walk around really cold and they’re not just going to get an extra sweater or an extra jacket or a coat or something. I have lots of clients that are really cold. I’m like go get a sweater, woman.

And it’s interesting, those little changes. We had one client who took down her hair and she’s like, “Oh my God, my head has been hurting me all day and I didn’t realize I’ve been in a tight ponytail.” And this sounds kind of silly when I say it, but think about all the important work you have to do in the world, our darling listener, and yet you’re tolerating all these little discomforts all day long.

And it’s not like they go away, your brain starts to ignore them. They’re just sort of in the background of your head. It’s like that weird buzzy feeling. And when the buzz is turned off you feel this relief and you’re like, “Why was I walking around that way?”

And then guess what? You go to your closet and you do it again tomorrow. You wear shoes that don’t fit, underwear that’s too tight and is digging in your booty all day, pants that are too tight and you have to rub your belly. All of these things, right? Some of you are suddenly very hyper aware of what your body feels like.

But just because your brain has put that pain in the background doesn’t mean it’s not there. Let’s free up your brain space, because you got important stuff to do, by actually putting clothes on that are comfortable because it’s literally holding you hostage. It’s such a distraction.

Bonnie: Yeah, and I think I told you really upfront clothes have to be comfortable. And you were probably like, yeah. Yeah, if something is uncomfortable, I just can’t wear it. My tolerance for turtlenecks, I just have no tolerance for turtlenecks. You know, things are different for different people, right?

And I have a confession, Judith.

Judith: Tell me. Tell me everything.

Bonnie: My current underwear is not working for me.

Judith: We’ll get you sorted out.

Bonnie: Okay, offline you can help me.

Judith: I’ll take care of that, my friend.

Bonnie: That has been a pain point. I know it sounds so silly, but I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one on this call.

Judith: Definitely not the only one.

Bonnie: Yeah, it like bunches up. I remember buying even, I just feel silly saying this on a podcast, but whatever, this underwear is designed to be seamless. And I was really excited about it. And it just keeps moving on my butt. And I even emailed them and I was like, “This is horrible.” And then, of course, they were like, “Oh, well, sorry.” And you know, blah, blah, blah.

Judith: Part of the problem with seamless is you want to make sure it does have some elastic banding inside so it stays seated in place. Otherwise, because there’s no friction because it’s seamless, it slides around. And then by the end of the day you’re like really digging it out of your booty or out of your crotch because it’s completely bunched.

So you’re not alone in that with the seamless. Not all seamless panties are made equal. So you might want to find some, and I’ll give you some recommendations, but there are tons. You’re not the only one is all I had to say. I was going to go on a tangent and I realized. I will bring myself back, hi.

Bonnie: Well, let’s talk a bit about bras since we’re on the topic of undergarments because I feel like no bra was comfortable. And I tried a bunch and, you know, then they were like, oh, might be the wrong size. At least I feel like there’s more awareness around bra fit, right? Would you agree?

Judith: Yes. Oh, absolutely.

Bonnie: Yeah.

Judith: Yeah.

Bonnie: So this is kind of a funny story and I’m fine saying it in public. I actually have a little cyst, it’s under my left breast. And it got really angry at the end of last year. This is like a strange story.

Judith: Oh, that’s so painful.

Bonnie: This is like a whole story. It’s got a history, I should say. Anyway, it got so bad that I couldn’t wear a bra anymore. When it got better and I wore a really loose, loungy bra it got angry again. I have not worn a bra since like October. But you know what I did find is, because at first I was like, there’s got to be something. I can’t be the only one who has some issue in the bra laying area.

Judith: You’re absolutely not.

Bonnie: So I found these nipple covers.

Judith: Yeah.

Bonnie: And they’re amazing.

Judith: And you can find beautiful nipple covers, like in really pretty shapes. I know it sounds funny, but if you’re going to have a bra-free experience, I think let’s have the best bra-free experience ever. And you can find beautiful petals, they come in different skin tones now. They’re doing such a better job at that. And then even boob tape if you wanted to have some sort of cleavage effect.

Bonnie: I have that.

Judith: Like, you know, buying the tape in your particular color. I don’t recommend boob tape past certain sizes. I would say if you’re probably in the G cup, H cup range, they’re not as effective. But for smaller breasts I do think it’s effective. And for some of us, we actually don’t need to wear a bra, you really don’t have to, friends. So if you want to have a bra-free moment and you want to go commando, just make sure you have everything you need to have as good of an experience as you can if you want to free yourself from any undergarments.

Bonnie: I love it, you’re like free yourself, free your body. Yeah, because even that construct of needing a bra, I’m sure you’ve thought about it. And so Judith and I were in this advanced feminist coaching program and we were just learning all the patriarchal programming that we’re not even aware of. And I was just thinking, like are bras one of those constructs?

Have you thought about this?

Judith: Yeah, so I teach a bra workshop and one of the things is I give them like a tongue in cheek feminist history of bras because it’s freaking fascinating.

Bonnie: Give us the short story.

Judith: Yeah, I’ll give you the short story. So there were actually in ancient times, and even ancient Greece, there are frescoes with women wearing bras. And they are what they call proto-brassiere, and you can find pictures of them if you’d like to see. And they’re actually very close to what we have currently, which is very, very funny.

Where things get wacky is when we start to add boning to the bra structures and we create wiring systems. And instead of just supporting the natural breast, we decided to create shapes with the natural breasts and we decided to change the shape of the natural body. That’s where shit went weird.

And there’s a funny history during World War II where they were asking women not to have steel boning in their brassieres anymore because it was needed for the war effort. So we got a slight reprieve during the war times. Like handkerchief ribbon bras that were being made at home by hand. It’s a whole funny history.

We had a slight reprieve and then got into the 50s when suddenly we want to procreate again and women have these exaggerated breast shapes that are really globular, pointy, and things get weird again. So it’s just kind of interesting if we track world events with what we’re expecting of women’s breasts and how they should look. It just gets really interesting. And I won’t belabor it, but there’s a whole funny history here. There’s a feminist history here that’s worth looking at.

And whenever we talk about anything with regard to style I just want to add the caveat, you get to do what you want with your body, always. You don’t want to wear a bra, you don’t have to. You don’t want to wear panties, you don’t have to. You want conical pointy breasts that are 50s bullet shaped, I’m here for this and you get to do what you want with your body. Like, whatever, I just want you all to check in and decide whether you like your reasons or not. But you always get to decide what to do.

Bonnie: I just want to put a pin in something so that we get to it.

Judith: Okay.

Bonnie: I want to talk about the clients that I work with, they’re working on wealth creation of the money kind, and I wanted to talk about how we can use style to, help isn’t the word, but go hand in hand together. But my God, this topic is so fascinating.

I just was thinking, when we think of certain workplaces, so a physician’s workplace or anything where women have to be conservative, we’re kind of told how our bodies should look, right? There’s dress codes. And it seems like we’re turning backwards in some places, you know, they tell women what to wear. And so that’s also patriarchy, obviously. What can we do about that?

Judith: Oh, it’s so interesting. I think sometimes funnily playing within the rules, like when I was in court I was a litigator. So I was in court, I was in trial all the time. And I had some judges who were very staunch, even women had to wear coats. If I’m requiring a man to wear a jacket, women also have to wear a jacket. And I was like, okay, you want me to wear a jacket? I will wear a jacket. Like the frippery, like big bows. I’m like, I’m technically wearing a jacket, Your Honor, you wanted me to wear a jacket.

And it became like a funny thing. It was like what will Ms. Hoover wear to court today? Like it just became this funny thing. It’s like, I don’t mind playing within the rules if there’s decorum. There’s actually rules of court we have to abide by, just like you have health and safety codes, close toed shoes, different things we have to work within. But I don’t want that to ever inhibit anyone from expressing themselves because even within those rules, such as they are and such as they exist, we can play.

There’s so much fun stuff that we can do even within those realms. And I don’t want you ever to think like, oh, well, I’m only allowed to. It’s like, okay, if those are the parameters, let’s find where there’s places to play within those parameters.

Bonnie: Yeah, I love that. I love even just that phrase, we can still play with that.

Okay, so let’s talk about how to feel rich, because I think, you know, after we worked together I remember sending you a message saying that the way I was dressing myself had changed because I work on Zoom and no one sees me except for when I’m on Zoom. And so I do kind of try to plan the days I’m on Zoom in terms of my hair, makeup, whatever.

But I have been making, it’s not even an effort, but I feel different when I wear certain types of clothes. And I remember messaging you and saying, “I feel like a million bucks because of the way I’m dressing now.” So that’s what I want us to talk about. Like accessing that and why style helps facilitate that.

Judith: And I love that, like I feel like a million bucks because here’s the fun thing y’all, everyone’s million bucks is going to look very different, right? So my million bucks is going to look different than Bonnie’s million bucks. And all of us are going to show up differently because our version of the luxe life in our head and what our million dollar selves, our billion dollar selves looks like, it’s just going to be different because style is personal.

So I want you to think outside of the paradigm of millionaires look this particular way or billionaires look this particular way, because when you actually meet those folks in real life they all look very, very different. One of the funny things, I remember working at Disneyland when I was younger, I was in college. And one of the things that we were trained on is never assume, based on how people are dressed, who they are or what their status is.

And I remember that was so impressed upon me because we’d have people who were royalty visiting, we’d have people who were heads of state, we’d have people who were famous baseball players or musicians. And these are real life examples I’m giving you, and they would come with their kids and their family. They’re in holy sweats, their kid vomited on them, like they’re living real normal life and they are definitely very, very wealthy. We can’t ever assume, right?

So I also just want you to just play, like what does your luxe life look like? And then what clothing is going to best support your version of a luxe life? And that’s just going to be so different for each of us. Mine includes a very fabulous hat wardrobe, that is like a mainstay. And there’s going to be a hat closet eventually, like, oh my gosh, all the things, right?

For some of you, your handbag game is going to be next level, otherworldly. I want you to start to play with that idea, like what does my luxe life look like? And then what clothing will support that lifestyle?

Bonnie: My wheels are turning. I don’t think I ever really thought about that, Judith. Definitely there’s going to be handbags, there’s going to be no hats. I feel like my hair game is pretty good. I’m just thinking of the things that are important to me. You know what I mean?

Judith: Yeah.

Bonnie: Shoes.

Judith: And there’s some ways that you’re already living your luxe life, that’s a cool thing to pause on too.

Bonnie: I want to do this exercise after, I want to sit down and really think about this. I don’t think I’ve actually really, I think I had this almost like, just like you were saying, like this idea of how I should dress. And I’m sure you’ve seen this, you know, we’re both certified by the same coaching school, I feel like sometimes you feel a little pressure to dress a certain way.

Judith: Like in any culture, right? So cultures get created just where humans gather. So whether that’s a culture of your work environment and everyone’s wearing Figs, so then you have to wear Figs, too, right? Or the culture of a work environment where everyone wears navy blue suits, or pinstripe suits, or whatever the hell is happening in the culture where the humans that you gather with gather, it’s natural that that occurs.

But you always get a beautiful moment here, and we’re offering and inviting you into a pause to say like, do I actually want to show up that way? And if I envision my luxe life, does that even factor in? Does it even make sense for me?

Bonnie: Yeah, this is so good. I’ve got so much to think about now. And actually, we’ve already talked offline about you guest coaching in my program because I know they would just love this if they’re not already hearing about this. Because I think sometimes it’s really easy to focus on just certain things like, yeah, of course, I want more money. Then everyone is different about what their rich life looks like, right?

For me, it’s beautiful, luxury, tropical vacations, mostly in Hawaii. That’s like my favorite place. Flying first class. And I do fly first class a lot right now, but right now, it’s not accessible as like – I have to think about it before I book the flight is what I’m trying to say. I can’t wait to get to the point where I won’t even care what the price is, right? But I don’t think I ever really thought about what that version of me actually wears.

Actually, here’s a fun little story because I do future self-visualizations for me and my clients. And I did have a, she had the same hair by the way, so that’s good. But she had earrings on and I’ve had earrings before, but my ears have always closed up. Or like they’ve closed up because I didn’t wear earrings because I found them kind of annoying.

Judith: Okay.

Bonnie: Like I had this idea that I want earrings. So since I had that vision I was like, oh, I better get my ears re-pierced, so I did. And then the left ear, you guys can’t see the video. It’s kind of hard to see, Judith, but look, you see there’s an earring in my right ear.

Judith: Okay.

Bonnie: There’s no earring here because it got infected last week.

Judith: Of course, because you’re still human.

Bonnie: I was like, is this a sign?

Judith: Even our future selves are still humans that get ear infections. Like, hi, welcome to being human.

Bonnie: But I’m still in the period where it’s probably closed up because, anyway, so I just thought like, is this a sign? Anyway, whatever.

Judith: But I love that you’re playing with it. So I think, let’s even play this out further. So let’s imagine you get to a place where you’re just booking Hawaii, not a care in the world. Like are you the kind of woman who has a change of clothes for the plane?

Do you wear pajamas on the plane? And do you change your clothes beforehand and then you change your clothes right before landing? Do we have plain like yummy slippers that we bring? Like it gets fun when we start to think of our version of a luxe life.

Bonnie: My mind is being blown. Actually, I think right now, because I’m sure you and I both travel a lot for our work. And I do have a plane outfit, it’s basically like those Vuori joggers, I actually wear them every day pretty much. I’m wearing them right now. And I have like a cute one, it’s pink and I have this pink top that I wear and my sneakers that you helped me pick out actually. The white sneakers with like rose gold.

Judith: I remember those sneakers, I was just going to ask you.

Bonnie: Yeah, I love them. They’re getting, I need to wash them. They’re getting a little dirty but those are like my go-to shoes now.

Judith: Mr. Clean Magic Eraser.

Bonnie: Good to know. I was thinking I would have to wash them in my sink. Okay, so I have had this idea like, I want to wear nicer travel clothes. I don’t see myself dressing in my fancy-ish clothes. But I was like, there’s got to be like a really nice, kind of like scrubs, right? There’s got to be a version of comfortable travel wear that doesn’t look like sweatpants. You know what I mean?

Judith: Yeah, and you get to decide, like you get to go on the hunt for that and create outfits that support that vision in your head, right? Because if you’re at your most luxurious and you’re most comfortable, then what do we get you to support that vision in your head?

Bonnie: It also has good underwear that doesn’t bunch up.

Judith: Exactly. So there’s good panties, there’s comfy outfits, but it’s still a little elevated polish. Maybe there’s a cashmere pashmina that you can wrap yourself in on the plane. Like there are so many places to play here. And that’s your vision, right? Someone else’s vision might look different.

Bonnie: Thank you for all these ideas I’m getting, Judith.

Judith: You’re welcome.

Bonnie: Okay, part of me is like I need to maybe hire you again. I feel like I’ve gone backwards and I’m wearing joggers. There’s nothing wrong with the joggers though. Even just me saying it, it’s like why am I making it a problem, right?

Judith: Not a problem. You get to keep your stretchy pants. You get to keep your comfy pants. This idea that they’re not real pants is just simply not true and I don’t think it’s helpful for any of us to think of it that way. We just want to make sure that they’re the best quality that you can afford, and that they’re the best fit that you can afford and to get for yourself. And you will work at your best level when your body is actually physically comfortable.

And that doesn’t mean that your version of stylish and comfort are not synonymous, they’re totally synonymous. But we get to look at what that looks like for each individual person. And if stretchy pants are part of your game and joggers are part of your game, let’s just find you the best damn joggers we can.

Bonnie: Yeah, I feel like they’re even getting better. Like Vuori kind of like, it’s hard to explain. Just like a fancier version, I guess, is the best way to say it.

Judith: Yeah, I just got some Cozy Earth joggers for Christmas and they’re modal cotton. They’re like butter. I’m like, I’m just going to shave my legs just so I can put these pants on. You know that fresh feeling, I know everyone knows exactly what that sensation is. Like, oh, I’m just going to shave just for them. No, not for my husband, not for anybody else, not even for me, for the pants. I’m going to shave my legs for the pants.

Bonnie: Oh my God. So it’s funny, I actually, and maybe I bought the Cozy Earth joggers a few years ago, so I’m sure they’ve been updated. But I stopped wearing them because the band just felt, I think it was too tight. I probably just bought the wrong size. So they’re somewhere collecting dust, I don’t even know where.

Judith: They’re in the ether somewhere.

Bonnie: They’re in the ether, they’re somewhere in my closet. But we have the Cozy Earth sheets and those are super soft. I love them. Matt doesn’t like them that much, which is bizarre to me.

Anyway, I want to talk still a little bit more about feeling like a million bucks. Like think of what that rich version of themselves dresses like, is that the way they should think about it.

Judith: Yeah, reverse engineer it. How do you spend your day when you are living your luxe life? Like just kind of journal snapshots. So we’re going to break this down practically into an exercise for you all.

I want you to imagine you woke up in the morning, walk us through like a movie in the day in the life of you as your millionaire self, your billionaire self, whatever works for you. And I want you to just record, what are the activities you imagine yourself doing?

For some of you, you are going to hit that gym. Or maybe the personal trainer comes to you. Okay, bougie, I love it. But you get to decide like, well, how am I going to show up for that training session? Like what clothes would I need for that? And what do I imagine the best sneakers are for that? Maybe some of you are going to become sneaker heads, I don’t know.

And then if you have meetings that day and you meet with other humans to go over your assets and all your holdings and your portfolio, because you’re that person now, what handbag are you carrying? Maybe you don’t carry a handbag. Maybe you have somebody who carries your shit for you. Okay, I love it, right? But then what outfit are you wearing? You get to get in the nitty gritty details of this.

And some of you, it might have cued an eye roll and your internal like, ugh, is coming up. Here’s why I’m telling you this, this is why it’s super important. We’re normalizing this for you. If you really want to become the woman who has a net worth of X amount, it has to become so normal. And you have to start to recognize the little glimpses of her where she’s already here, so when you get there you don’t have an identity crisis. You don’t self-sabotage and do any weird stuff that humans do when they’ve achieved a goal.

Instead it’s just become so normal to you because you’ve gone over it in your head so many times. And you want to get in the details of it, and I think style is a beautiful way to get into the details of it and make this real to you. What do you imagine the fabric textures being?

I imagine, one of my ideas of a luxe life is I’m going to rent a house in Provence to live with my best friend for a month out of the year. And she’s going to bring her kids and our nannies. Neither one of us has children or nannies at this point, but it’s part of the vision so we go with it, right?

The nannies are coming, the kids are coming and we’re in Provence. I have pictured in detail the sun hat, the bathing suit, the wrap I’m going to wear when I get out of the pool, the kinds of Roman towels we’re going to have, because there’s a certain type of Roman towel that I really love. Like all of those little details that sound like, oh my gosh.

But think of how normal, I’ve lived at that house in Provence already a gazillion times. By the time it occurs, it’ll be so normal for my body that I’ve kind of mitigated the idea that there’s going to be some sort of self-sabotage, which I’m prone to do and which a lot of high achievers are prone to doing. So that’s why it’s so important to get in the details of it.

Bonnie: Oh my God, this is so good. Now I’m thinking about the types of things that I would bring or just, yeah, I love it. I need to think about this. I’m going to have to think really hard about this after our call now.

Okay. Is there anything that we haven’t said that you think peeps should know?

Judith: No, I think we’ve given them, like and mind blowing, go play with the exercise. And if you’re in Bonnie’s community, go get some coaching on whatever comes up for you in your visioning exercise. This is powerful stuff and it’s such a fun place to play.

Even if you’re driving while listening to this or we’re in the background of you working, go take this to a piece of paper at some point later on in the day. It’s so good to get this out of your brain and heart and to kind of look at it objectively and just bask in like the fun that this really could be as you work towards paying off debt or whatever it is you have to do to get to your version of a luxe life.

Bonnie: Yeah, I’m so excited about this. Okay, you’re definitely going to come inside my program and coach because I think we don’t spend time, and this is everyone, not just my clients. We don’t spend time living that future life and vision that we have. And style gives us early access almost to that.

Judith: Yes.

Bonnie: Oh my God, I love that. My mind has been blown just like talking shop with you, because it’s different when you’re like a client, you know what I mean?

Judith: Oh yeah, absolutely. And I’m going to steal that line, it gives you early access. Oh, I love that. Thank you for that. That was like a little gem, I’m going to keep it in my pocket. Thank you. Thank you.

Bonnie: Awesome. Well, this was such an amazing conversation. I’m already like, people can’t see the video, but I’m like, whoa. Anyway, okay, Judith, how can people find you?

Judith: Yeah, you can listen to my podcast. If you’re listening to a podcast, chances are you like podcasts, so you can check me out at Style Masterclass Podcast with Miss J. Or you can find out more about what we do in my community, it’s called Modern Charm School, and you just go to judithgaton.com/moderncharmschool.

Bonnie: Can you spell out the website?

Judith: Yeah. So J-U-D-I-T-H-G-A-T-O-N forward slash modern charm school, all one word.

Bonnie: Awesome. And we’ll link it in the show notes as well. All right, thank you so much for being here, this was a delight.

Judith: Thank you. Thank you for having me.