183: How to Be a Better Parent with Hope Seidel MD

Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it, and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level your money and your life. I’m your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.

Hey, everyone. So today you are in for a treat because I have one of my coaches on the show. So I had my first coach on the podcast several podcasts ago, so you might want to check that out. It’s with Dr. Sunny Smith. And in fact, it was two episodes and they’re both like an hour because Sunny is not known for her brevity. And we literally would have talked for a third hour, but I had a hard stop because I had a client call. 

But anyway, today’s conversation is not an hour, although I think it’s more like 40 minutes. But it’s with my parent coach, Hope Seidel and I guess we’ve been working together for, it’s been more than a month, maybe it’s been two months. But it’s something that I think every parent needs to know as a resource, like whether you hire a one on one coach or join a parenting program. 

I personally think every parent out there needs this type of support. Kids don’t come with an operating manual, and every kid is different. If you have more than one kid, you definitely know this. I only have one, although my bonus son is 17. But every child is so different and they have different needs and they’re going to require different ways of parenting. I wish there was one right way to parent and it would work on every kid, but unfortunately that is not the case, as I’ve learned with my son. 

And whenever I tell people that I have a parenting coach, it has been the hardest work of my life because a lot of the work is actually more me and not so much Jack, and just really understanding how it is for a child. Like how the world looks to them, and you’re going to hear us talking a bit about that towards the end of the podcast. 

And so if you’re a parent I just want to say, it’s so hard, you’re doing a great job. And you’ll sort of hear in our conversation, the type of parenting that we both are on board with. Some people call this conscious parenting. I don’t think gentle parenting is the term because I feel like that almost has a connotation that we’re being soft parents. And that’s not what it is at all. 

But some books that I have really enjoyed reading to help me with all this is Dr. Becky Kennedy’s Good Inside, and she actually has a pretty low-cost parent membership. I’m trying to think of some other parent, oh, How to Talk So your Kids Will Listen and how to Listen So your Kids Will Talk. That book is more for a bit of age nine and up is my guess. 

So I actually just ordered the same book, but the version for little kids, ages four to seven because a lot of the examples from the other book were just not applicable to Jack’s age. But the first chapter in that book is really about validating kids’ emotions. And we talked about that a little bit, but not as much as I would have liked. 

And so I just want to put that here, that kids want to be – Well, I think all humans want to be seen and heard. And so if you know that, that’s what your kids want, they want to feel validated. And we often will invalidate their feelings by simple things like if they get hurt, they’re like, oh, no, no, it’s okay, you’re okay. And that seems so benign, but that teaches a kid that their feelings aren’t valid. That their feeling hurt isn’t valid, right? 

And so that’s just one example of things that we do that are well intentioned, but actually are very invalidating to our kids. Anyway, I could talk about this forever. It’s something I’m really, really into right now. If you and I have had a conversation, chances are I’ve mentioned that I have a parent coach and that I’m just going down the rabbit hole because, obviously, I want to be a good parent. 

But I think one thing I’ve really learned, and also the decision to send Jack to a Waldorf school is, I don’t want to focus on just creating a smart, successful kid, which I think was the focus when we were younger. I really want to help Jack be a good human. A good human who is wanting to do good in the world, that has confidence, that wants to just help people. And I don’t really know how to say it, but I just want Jack to be a good human. Of course he is. I think all kids are, and then our job is to guide that process into adulthood. 

Anyway, here’s my conversation with Hope. 

Bonnie: All right, Hope, welcome to the podcast. 

Hope: Thank you for having me. I’m so excited. 

Bonnie: Yeah, I’m excited too. I’m always excited about all my guests because I think they’re all wonderful and have so much to contribute. But when I talk to people that I have a parent coach, some people are not confused in a bad way, they’re just like, “What? That’s a thing?” And then some people are like, “Oh my God, I need one too.” 

So, first of all, I didn’t even know parent coaches existed. I knew there were parenting courses, but I guess that would make sense that you could hire people. But I feel like maybe the word is getting out. So tell us a bit, introduce yourself. 

Hope: I can definitely do that. So I am first and foremost, a mother. I have two kids over the age of 20, which is impossible to believe. And I’ve been a general pediatrician for the last 22 years. And I’ve always had a strong passion for connecting with parents. I really feel like wellness starts at home. 

And so even though I’m in the business of being a pediatrician and managing kids wellness, I noticed over time in my pediatric practice that so many of the issues that I was seeing in children, not ear infections and cancer and things, but so many of the issues that were coming up in kids’ homes were parents struggling with what was normal developmentally and how to handle boundaries and noticing when their kids trigger them. 

Parent coaches probably are different. So my coaching involves creating norms and giving guidance and anticipatory guidance, because that’s what I’ve been doing for a long time. But a lot of coaching is trying to better understand the mindset of parents as they come into parenting, right? 

Like how they were parented and what they make their kids’ behavior mean about their kids, about them. Expectations and sort of ways in which we hope our kids would show up. What we’re in charge of and what we’re not, how to control things, what we’re in control of. 

And so I do a lot of work with parents on tons of different things, depending on where their pain point is. And some parents hire me just because they want to be more intentional in their parenting and want to come up with a better way to do what they’re already doing pretty well. So it really just depends on the client. 

Bonnie: And if you think about it, kids don’t come with manuals. How would I know what to expect? These things, how would I know what the milestones are, right? But then there’s a whole like, well, how do you actually parent? No one really talks about that, but you do hear about strategies that focus on kids behavior. 

So let’s talk about that first, because I think a lot of the traditional parent advice was focusing on kids behavior. And one thing I’ve learned, even before working with you, is like all behavior is communication. I actually went to this parenting coaching class when I was at Miraval and I remember him saying that and it really stuck with me. 

And then knowing what I know as a coach, it makes sense. Like their behavior, there’s something behind the behavior. So let’s work on that versus just trying to, quote unquote, “fix” the behavior. So what are your thoughts on that and how traditional parenting and the shift that we’re seeing now? 

Hope: Well, there used to be a very high priority placed on obedience, right? Compliance and obedience, and that is usually directed towards managing a child’s behavior. And I think that there’s a lot of costs to that, but the bigger issue is that we can accidentally, in focusing only on our kids’ behavior, shut down the part of them that caused it, to your point. 

I mean, all of our kids’ feelings are really, or a need that they have, if they’re hungry, or tired, or if they’re sad, their behaviors don’t always look consistent with that. Like if you and I are angry, maybe we’re going to yell. But if a child is tired, maybe they’re going to cry, which can look like sadness to us. Or maybe they throw something when they’re really frustrated. 

And so just disciplining the part of their behavior that we don’t like, that makes us feel like bad parents, that is not what we’re teaching our children, or whatever narrative we have, really cheats them out of learning how to better handle the cause of what caused the behavior to begin with. 

Bonnie: So talk a little bit on why punishment is not effective. Because even though I think most parents have accepted that hitting your kids or spanking is not okay, compared to when I was being brought up that was considered normal. Actually, this is random, but I remember in preschool, the owner’s son was in my class and we would actually hear him spanking him sometimes, like in the back room. Like that does not happen, right? 

So tell us a bit about why that has shifted. Why is punishment, quote unquote, “bad?” What’s the data or the thinking behind that? 

Hope: Well, punishment works. I mean, it just aborts behavior and it doesn’t teach anything. 

Bonnie: Yes, that’s what I meant. 

Hope: So, I mean, just to be clear when you want to shut your kids down, I mean, many kids who are well behaved in our society are afraid of getting in trouble. The current sort of sophisticated way of thinking about managing or teaching our kids is remembering that punishment doesn’t teach, right? It just stops a behavior that makes us uncomfortable, and then the child is still left without the skill set to be able to shift into a more attractive or acceptable behavior in our family system. 

And so I think that parents get a lot of feedback that when they hit or when they scream, or when they finally lose their mind or when they take their phone away, or they do whatever they’re going to do to get their kid to stop, we can’t make our kids do something or not do something. We can just make them sorry with punishment that they didn’t make the right choice. 

And so I think that the current thinking, Bonnie, is just that we need to do a better job of using these opportunities when our kids, quote, “mess up” or they behave in a way that is unacceptable to us, to use that as an opportunity to teach. I mean, think about every time in medical school or when you were in residency, if you got berated when you didn’t do something well, it creates shame. No one learns in shame. 

Bonnie: Yes, totally. So I actually wanted to talk about this at some point, so this is perfect. Yeah, punishment aborts the behavior, doesn’t teach and it creates shame, right? Because I still see in so many mom groups like timeouts. And a lot of people still think those are effective. And I don’t know if we talked about this, Hope, but I stopped doing timeouts. 

Well, I did them because the book I had told me to do them. And people in the Facebook group said that’s what you should do. But he genuinely freaked out when we did it. And I asked him after the fact once, basically he said something about being afraid of being left alone, like being abandoned, or I think he actually used the word kidnapped one day. But just noticing that that was really detrimental for his mental health to do that. 

Every kid will obviously react to different things, right? But I think the bottom line here is that shame is not a useful tool. And the example you gave, if we were berated all time, like shame does not change anything and they can’t learn. 

Hope: Well, it either teaches them to be afraid or it teaches them that there’s a cost to their feelings. We’re not creating an environment where they can really practice a new behavior. And what happens is, to your point earlier, if we don’t recognize that every behavior is coming from an unmet need or a feeling, they don’t get a chance to experience their feelings. We accidentally say to them with our punishments, how you feel is not important, even if that’s not what we’re saying with our language. 

Bonnie: Yeah. Can you explain exactly what you mean by an unmet need? 

Hope: So an unmet need might look like they’re hungry, or they are thirsty, or they’re tired, or they’re frustrated. They aren’t getting attention from us sometimes. So think about the times when your kids are bugging you or nagging you or interrupting you on the phone, right? Sometimes that looks like a behavior, maybe they’re banging on something when you’re doing an activity where you don’t want to be interrupted, and that unmet need could just be attention. That’s all that they need. 

And so one of the things that we’ve talked a lot about together, and I often say with my clients is this idea that if we’re just genuinely curious about what the behavior is about, and managing our own frustration in the moment if the behavior is irritating to us or triggering, you know, if we have thoughts that it’s not a behavior we want. 

But really being curious about where it’s coming from, sometimes we can offer to our kid, I see that you’re hitting, are you frustrated? I see that you’re hitting, are you hungry? You can be curious about what the issue is. And that way, you’re not saying the behavior is okay, but you’re able to find out what the need is that they have underneath and address that, which often will abort the behavior without the need for any kind of discipline. 

Bonnie: My therapist actually said that, she said, most compliant kids are scared. And that’s why they’re compliant. 

Hope: Yes. 

Bonnie: What do you think about that? 

Hope: I 100% agree with that. I think that one of the things that parents do a lot is they look to other kids. And they say like, how did they get a kid that’s so obedient or compliant or does so well? And I’m not saying every kid that is compliant or who listens correctly or whatever is scared, but a lot of children know the cost of their voice. 

And so many of the parents, especially the parents who I take care of who are professionals or physicians, like you do, really want to raise resilient and bold kids who speak their mind and contribute to the world. And part of that involves them doing that in our homes, getting feedback from having an opinion. 

And when we tell our kids that isn’t how respect looks or we get frustrated when they exert their independence or tell us when they don’t like something and say no, we’re really chipping away at that long game we have of wanting them to be productive adults that say what they want, that know how to create boundaries for themselves, that excel. 

And so I’m not sure if that answered your question. But I do think that shutting a kid down feels good to us when the behavior is uncomfortable, but there’s a very high cost to that in terms of our long game. 

Bonnie: I mean, if that’s the takeaway point, if there’s just one takeaway point, I think that would be it. And then also, I don’t want people to think just because, you know, we’ve all lost it, right? And so I think, especially for my audience, we want to be perfect at everything. And so if we do yell or lose our crap, then we feel like awful parents, right? And so I think a lot of what you helped me with is just giving myself grace. Like I’m not going to be perfect, right? 

Hope: Yeah, and I also think parents, there’s two issues that you bring up. The first is that physicians in general and professionals are very outcome driven. And so our metrics matter, and so how our kids are turning out, we use as evidence against ourselves all of the time, right? 

When they have a normal behavior that’s coming from an unmet need or a feeling, we’re doing that, right? And we can easily catastrophize that into all the places, where they’re going, how they’re going to turn out, or judge ourselves because we’re really not showing up perfectly. And so you’re on point about that. It’s very confusing in parenting because we can’t use the metrics that we use that make us successful in our careers often. 

But the second point I want to make is that, and I think you and I have spoken about this as well, the idea that our imperfection can really be a beautiful opportunity for our kids, because we’re all going to half the time be really not great at something, and so are they. Our imperfections can allow us to be compassionate to our kids, when half of the time they’re having a rough time. 

And our imperfections can be an invitation to teach our kids what repair looks like. To be able to say to our kids, like I did not show up as the mom I wanted to be today. I’m really sorry, I really shouldn’t have yelled at you. And I was frustrated and that’s not your fault. I’m in charge of how I feel and I made a mistake. 

Imagine, I think, for any of us even as an adult, how powerful that would be for our parents even now to say to us, I don’t really like how I showed up in this moment. So I think even when we’re not perfect, Bonnie, people underestimate the power of repair. It’s so important for our kids, and it’s not better than doing it right, I don’t think. 

Bonnie: Yeah, I’m so glad you brought that up because that’s definitely not something our parents ever did, was apologize. 

Hope: Yes. 

Bonnie: I’m pretty sure that never happened with me. And I remember when I first read about how powerful repair is, it definitely felt weird to me. But I’ve done it with Jack and I remember this one time where I said it, I really do believe it makes an impact because he just hugged me. 

Hope: It’s so respectful, yes. It’s so respectful. And I’ll tell you what else, it may have not happened to you yet, but it will. The better you get at repairing, you’re actually giving your kids a very specific way of apologizing about being accountable. You’re giving them a language that really allows them to use again when they make a mistake. 

So many times I’ve said something to my kids and then they’ve come up and made an error or spoke to me in a way that we all have agreed is not okay. And when I just give them a minute and they come back up, I notice they use the very same language that I used with them. It’s extremely impactful for them and so respectful. 

Bonnie: Yeah, I mean, I feel like this is basically an example of how they’re always watching and we’re modeling behavior for them always, right? 

Hope: Always. Yes, always. 

Bonnie: I think we can all agree, so for those listening who are parents, that we all want to be the best parent. I don’t even know if the best parent we can be is the right thing, but the parent that we know we want to be. Because I think all of us have, like deep down, what good parenting looks like, right? 

I just think most people just don’t have the tools, which as a coach kind of makes sense because so many of us weren’t taught. When I say tools, I mean, emotional regulation and being able to examine our thoughts and to just think about how, I don’t want to say change because we’re not trying to change everything. 

And so what I have found through this work, and when I say this work, working with you and just reading all the parenting books, like the modern ones that teach what we’ve been talking about versus punishing or whatever, this work is mostly ourselves. Not so much like what can we do to change this behavior for our kids, which is what I think a lot of people think parenting is. 

But it’s really working on ourselves so that we can, it’s not just modeling better behavior for them. But it is like being the parent you want to be naturally by doing the work ourselves. Am I making sense? 

Hope: You totally are. And listen, this is the best thing about having kids, and there’s so many amazing things. But one thing, if you choose to accept the invitation, right, is that our kids show us where we need to grow and heal. 

They poke the parts of us that are sad from our childhood, that are – I hate the word trigger, I feel like it’s so overused. But they do kind of trigger the spaces in us that need healing or that were never heard as a child. They show us places where we’re trying to undo the parenting that we had or unintentional ways in which we’re modeling the same kind of parenting that we had and how uncomfortable that felt. 

And so I love working with parents so much and I love seeing how your child is reminding you on how to get closer to yourself to heal parts of your parenting, the way you are parented, I mean. And I think they’re such amazing teachers for us. And many parents really aren’t so much looking for tools, although they are, they just think that there’s a right way to do it. 

And a lot of the work that I do with parents, when we pay attention to what your kids are bringing up for you, is allowing you to see what feels the most right for your family. We all have different values, we all have different priorities, things that are important to me as a parent are just not important to you. 

And when we start looking out at all the other people and wishing our kids were different, we get farther away from ourselves and it’s a lot harder to figure out what feels right for us. And that really is the most important thing. 

Bonnie: Yeah, so switching gears here a little bit, one thing that I tend to do, and hopefully I’m not the only parent like this, is does it seem like some parents have it easier? I mean, that’s probably true, right? But it seems like some parents know what they’re doing because their kids seem – Well, just like you were saying, we judge the parents based on their behavior, right? 

Hope: We judge the parents based on their kids, right? Let me give you an example, and I didn’t come up with this thought, but I’ll answer this question I think what you’re saying. Which is we have this – So there’s a really great book called The Blessing of a Skinned Knee, that is written by Wendy Mogel, and this is her idea that I’ve embellished. 

But it’s this idea that when we get our kids, they’re like a packet of seeds with no label. And we don’t really know what we’re growing, right? And so we plant our seeds and we water them and we just kind of watch. And we’re like, oh, that’s cute. What’s going on there? And some people are growing these really robust seeds and some of us are growing like cilantro. 

Bonnie: Hey, what’s wrong with cilantro? 

Hope: I love some cilantro. 

Bonnie: Okay.

Hope: You cannot have Mexican food without cilantro, in my opinion, unless you have that soap problem where it tastes terrible. But anyway, I love cilantro. But if you’re going next to a sunflower, it’s really easy for you to look over and say, what are they doing right? Their flowers are killing it. 

And the thing that comparison does in our parenting, or reading a generic book that tells you what to do, is that it doesn’t recognize that the seeds are predestined and some of us are growing flowers that are more delicate. Some of us are growing plants that are prickly, like my daughter is kind of cactus-y, and so my son is a sunflower. So it’s easy to get mad at what we’re growing, but it’s not necessary. 

Some of us have kids, or plants if you want to use that metaphor, that are trickier to grow correctly. But when we’re wishing it was something different, when we’re judging it for not growing correctly, we make it harder. It’s actually not that hard to grow cilantro, not that I’ve ever done it. But it probably isn’t that difficult if you know exactly what soil to have. 

A good friend of mine grows orchids and I think they’re impossible to grow, but she knows exactly what to do and so it’s not tricky for her at all. And so when you know what you’re growing and you’re paying very close attention to what you’re growing, it’s actually quite easy. It’s when we’re resisting what we have that things get even harder than they need to be. 

Bonnie: Yeah. I think also there’s a lot of like, at least for me it was like why is Jack, Jack? Not like there’s something wrong with him, but it’s like, yeah, sometimes I wish he was an easier kid, for sure. You know? 

Hope: Yeah. Yeah, it’s always fun when I have parents, especially in my pediatric office, who get a child that they find more challenging the second time around after they’ve had a very easy, bright, easy to grow flower first. And all of us make it mean we’re doing something wrong. 

And let’s just be honest, I mean, to validate what you said, some kids are definitely trickier to parent than others, and that just is what it is. I think that that’s not a matter of opinion. But when you understand your child and you’re really invested in teaching and learning and you amend your control, you amend your health, you amend your soil, when you become someone that is just more attentive, you tend to get a kid that is easier. 

A lot of kids respond to our disconnect with who they actually are in a way that doesn’t look so great usually. 

Bonnie: Yeah, I definitely argue with reality sometimes because I’m like, he was such a chill baby. He was so great. 

The things that are challenging with my son are also his greatest strengths. Like he has so much energy. He’s so kind and he’s definitely a funny kid. So it’s like, yeah, when I think of the whole package, of course I love him and I think he’s amazing. And, as you know, there’s certain things that have been challenging with him. 

Okay, and then I think what’s hard for me is the way I was parented, right? I was parented by parents who, more my dad than my mom, who just yelled and hit. 

Hope: Yeah, and that’s the toolbox you’re trying to draw from, right? 

Bonnie: Yeah, I definitely find myself losing my shit more than I’d like to. It’s a lot better now that I’ve been working with you and just like really noticing and also trying to model to Jack like taking deep breaths or even just saying out loud how I’m feeling, just to model with him. 

Hope: Yeah, you and I have talked a lot about how our sympathetic nervous system gets really activated when our kids are really doing behaviors that we don’t love, right? And so sometimes, to your point about really managing us, sometimes our best parenting doesn’t come when we’re activated. 

And so when we calm ourselves down when our kids are really behaving in a way that is not acceptable to us and we’re really activated and we don’t pause and take a breath and sort of calm our nervous system down, we tend to show up as the parts of our body that remember our parents. Like we just do our default because our body remembers how bad yelling felt. 

If your son is screaming and your dad always screamed at you, the odds of your nervous system being okay with that are really low. And so it requires this constant attention to what we need in the moment, looking at our unmet needs, which isn’t always available to us. We don’t have the time to have these special, beautiful conversations with our kids when we’re getting out the door or when we’re coming home from a busy day at work and we’re exhausted and our buckets are empty as well. 

So I do think it’s really important to give ourselves grace and recognize that we’re coming up with our own unmet needs and we are also sometimes parenting from an empty bucket. And that is a tricky place to parent from. And it’s just our reality, especially as full time physicians, you know? 

Bonnie: Yeah, I feel like there’s so much we could talk about, but then this would be like a multi-hour – 

Hope: Hours, I can do. 

Bonnie: Hours, yeah. I just want to say this, I think I told you this the other day, but I just think this is a funny illustration because maybe they want to try it at home. I told you how we switched roles the other day, right? Wait, did I tell you this? I told my other coach. 

Hope: No. 

Bonnie: Because I have two coaches I forget who I tell sometimes. No, so the other day, one of the things that is almost always a struggle is getting him to brush his teeth. Not always. So yesterday was particularly challenging and he did not want to brush his teeth. And it’s so funny, like when I think about how a kid’s brain works they’re like, well, I don’t want to do it so I’m not going to do it. That makes total logical sense, right? Anyway, that’s besides the point. 

So I said, “Hey, let’s play a game. You’re mommy, I’m Jack.” And he was like, “Yes, this is perfect.” So then he’s like, “Brush your teeth.” And I said no. And then he said, “Your teeth are going to fall out.” And I said no, and then I lied on the floor because that’s what he does. And then he said, “The tooth fairy is going to give you so many treasures if you brush your teeth.” 

Now, the reason why I’m laughing is this is stuff that I say to him. So he’s literally repeating my words. And then it kind of went on, eventually he brushed his teeth. But what it showed me was that they’re constantly being told what to do and I realized that really sucks. 

Hope: It does. 

Bonnie: I could not imagine someone telling me what to do all day, that’s one of the reasons why I’m an entrepreneur now, because I don’t want anyone telling me what to do. 

Hope: That’s so good. That awareness is on point. And being a kid is really hard. Like, imagine if we just remembered that all the time, how much access we would have to compassion and empathy for them. They don’t get to do anything. We tell them what they’re going to have for dinner. We tell them when they’re going to go to bed. We tell them what they can and can’t do and what the rules are. It’s hard. 

Bonnie: Although I don’t think I actually tell him the Tooth Fairy gives treasures. Part of me feels like, oh, he’s telling me what he wants. 

Hope: I hope you used it as evidence that he really is receiving messages from you, because sometimes it can feel like your kids aren’t hearing you at all. And so to hear him say exactly what you said must have felt a little good too, yeah? 

Bonnie: Yeah. But eventually he did brush his teeth because I think he thought it was such a fun game. 

Hope: I love it. Play is a really beautiful way to access connection with your kids because connection always results in compliance when you do it well. And what you did in that moment, is you really connected to what he needed, and it usually will result in improved compliance. 

Bonnie: Yeah, actually, we should talk about that real quick because I’m definitely not someone where play is natural. We’ve talked about this, like it’s definitely not my nature to be playful. So I do, I find it challenging to do it. And I feel stupid is really the best way to describe it. 

Hope: Oh, that’s interesting, yeah. I don’t enjoy it, to be honest with you. And I think that’s okay. I used to spend a lot of time as a young parent feeling jealous or feeling like I had to play Monopoly and do all the things. I try to use play in different ways. I think being playful is like sometimes cooking, which I really do love. You don’t always have to be sitting down on the floor and playing toys with your kids. 

However, even if you don’t like it, it is a very valuable connecting skill. And if it’s mind numbing to you or you feel like you don’t have the time, most of our kids don’t need a lot of time but one on one time that’s playful can feel really powerful for them. And I used to do play with books because I could make funny noises, but I really wanted them to read and I wanted them to sit and read with me. And reading was something that I could easily do without feeling exhausted. 

And so I would use a lot of play with that, or storytelling. So don’t get limited to one kind of play. You don’t have to play Legos with your kids in order to create connection. What you did the other night was brilliant, and that was play. 

Bonnie: Yeah, I think for him, play is doing something fun. Not so much playing with his toys, it’s like playing games or role playing. I don’t even know how this game came out, but he likes to play this game called police and prisoner. And like, the prison is like the area behind his bed. So he tells me to go to prison, to jail. 

Hope: Very nice. 

Bonnie: And then he’s the police guy and he’s on the bed. And then this is the game, it’s not really a game. It’s basically like he falls asleep and then I break out of jail. That’s literally the only game and we just do it over and over again and sometimes we switch roles. 

I think that type of playfulness is what he craves. And I get it, it’s not natural to me. I’m embracing it more, but again, it’s definitely not my natural state because I’m the serious type. Matt is definitely the more playful, funny, that type of guy. But yeah, this is definitely challenging, but I’m trying to do it more because I could see how much he loves it. 

Hope: And it’s an easy give, you know? It’s not that hard. It’s just a practice that doesn’t come naturally to you, you have to do it on purpose. And I wish I was more playful, too. I have friends that sit for hours and play with their kids on the floor. And that has just not been something that’s always been a skill set of mine. I don’t make that mean I’m a bad parent, but I do have to work harder at it. 

And I think all of us have skills that are trickier for us than others. That doesn’t have to be a problem. 

Bonnie: Is there anything that you want to say that we just haven’t gotten to? 

Hope: The amount of pressure we put on ourselves to do parenting right is probably the take home that I think is most important. I think parenting is a process and we’re looking to constantly readjust. And we’re talking about parenting a person that changes every day, every year, that’s constantly evolving, that has no frontal lobe. 

And so trying to really access curiosity on why it’s tricky for us and why things are difficult for our kids, instead of needing them to fit into some neat expectation that we have really allows both of our growth, which is the whole point. 

There’s not an outcome that we can control anyway. We can’t control other people, we have no way of knowing how our kids are going to end up. And when we’re really focused more on the now and how we’re not yelling or managing our own impatience or repairing in the moment, we’re constantly cultivating a child who is more emotionally aware and feels connected to us. 

And that’s really what I think all of us really want, we just sometimes go about it in the wrong way. 

Bonnie: All right, Hope, how can people find you? 

Hope: Well, I coach parents. I mostly coach professionals and a lot of physicians one on one. And you can find me at my website, which is Parent with Hope at parentwithhope.com. And I’m also on Instagram, I post stuff all the time, @parentwithhope. I’m on Facebook too, but if you like to just scroll on Instagram, you can find me there. 

So I take a select amount of clients. I don’t like to be too crazy full, but I do have a lot of parents that I do kind of deep work in. 

Bonnie: All right, thanks so much for being here. 

Hope: Thank you for having me.

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