The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | Wealth at Any Net Worth

70: Wealth at Any Net Worth

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The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | Wealth at Any Net WorthToday's podcast was inspired by the Health at Every Size movement. This is an approach to health that encompasses more than just looking at the scale to determine how healthy you are, using self-love and acceptance instead of fat-shaming to promote healthier habits. We know that shame doesn't lead to better health, and this goes for how we think about wealth as well.

Is there a specific net worth that defines wealth? And does not having that net worth mean you're not wealthy? Truthfully, net worth is just one data point. So today, I'm sharing my thoughts on what it means to be wealthy, and why I believe we can experience wealth at any net worth.

Tune in this week to discover why your net worth is just one aspect of your level of wealth. So many of you think your student loan or consumer debt means you can't be considered wealthy, but I'm showing you today how it's possible to be wealthy, regardless of your net worth.

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

  • Why using one data point to decide what wealth means is so problematic.
  • What I've decided wealth means for me, and how to decide what it means for you.
  • How to do the work to start feeling wealthy at your current net worth, no matter what that number is.

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Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level your money and your life. I'm your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.

Welcome to episode number 70.

So, today's podcast was inspired by the Health At Every Size movement. Now, you might not be familiar or ever heard of this so let me give you a little bit of background on it. So first of all I just want to say I am not an expert at this movement but I learned about it in my advanced certification for feminist coaching with Cara Loewentheil.

And so my understanding of this movement, the acronym is HAES, which stands for Health At Every Size. Basically my understanding is that it is an approach to health that encompasses more than just looking at the scale to determine your health. Because if you think about sort of general beliefs that we have as a society is that fat people are unhealthy and thin means you're healthy.

But hopefully you know that that's not entirely true, meaning you can be thin and very unhealthy. And so basically, it's looking beyond just the number on the scale to determine your health. And it's a movement that uses self-love and self-acceptance instead of fat shaming to promote healthier habits and change.

The last episode I briefly talked about how shaming and judging others and ourselves is not a useful way to create positive behavior changes. It doesn't work. And so I still have an episode planned on money shaming so look out for that in the future. But remember, shaming someone, whether it's someone else or yourself, is not an effective way to change behavior.

Okay, so why am I bringing up this Health At Every Size movement? Well, the more I thought about it, it got me thinking, how are we defining wealth like health? Meaning, is it a specific net worth? Does reaching that net worth mean you're wealthy? Does not having that net worth mean you're not wealthy?

And I actually got really excited when I started thinking about this because using weight as the only or main marker of health is so problematic because it just gives you one data point. And your numbers, like your net worth et cetera, also data points. It's just one way to measure wealth.

So I think first we probably need to define what wealth means. And for many of us it comes down to math or money. I also want us to be on the same page that wealth is not a destination, just like health isn't. Meaning that just like health, wealth is a way of being. It's a way of living and experiencing life.

Like if you're exercising and lifting weights to lose weight, to become healthier, it's not like once you reach that certain weight you can stop doing that and remain healthy or keep that six pack or whatever it is. And so I feel the same way about wealth. Money is only one aspect of it. Your net worth is only one aspect of your wealth.

Your net worth or the presence of debt or any other marker that you may have been measuring your money by in itself does not determine if you're wealthy or not.

Now, I'm focusing mostly on net worth but I know so many of you are using the presence of debt, particularly student loan debt or consumer debt, as a way of feeling bad about yourself in regards to money. Meaning that many of you have conflated having that type of debt with being bad with money.

Now, don't get me wrong, markers are useful but if you're solely using them to determine whether you're wealthy or using your weight to determine whether you're healthy or not it's just such a very limited way of looking at the big picture. And it also kind of relegates us to data points. And I don't know about you, but life is just so much more rich and complex than that, than just your net worth.

So, hopefully by now you're familiar with how I like to define wealth. How I define wealth is not just having tons of money, which is super fun obviously and I love having money and making it and spending it. But it's also having purpose, meaning being fulfilled as a human being and having peace of mind. Which is why I chose it for the subtitle of my upcoming book, Defining Wealth For Women: Peace, Purpose, and Plenty of Cash.

It's about having emotional wealth and material wealth. It's about being present to life, taking it in, enjoying having the human experience. And money is really just one aspect.

And ultimately, money is a tool to help me have these experiences. Now, I love me some money, I love spending it, I love having it. But money in itself is not the same thing as wealth. You got me?

All right, back to that phrase, health at every size. And so the term I came up with is wealth at every net worth. And so my challenge to you is how can you feel wealthy now at your current net worth? Because this is sort of the fallacy that all of us have, once we get there, whether it's the destination of wealth, or a certain net worth, or a certain weight. Or maybe when you meet the guy, get married, have the kids, that when you get there that you will be happy, content, feel secure.

Now, the ironic thing is that it actually is the opposite, meaning that you need to actually feel that way now. Because when you get there, that destination, that change of circumstance in itself is not going to magically make you feel better. Because thoughts create feelings, not circumstance like your net worth.

How many of us thought that we would feel so much better about money once we became attendings because we knew we were going to triple or even 5X our income? And how many of you are still worrying about money and having thoughts like, “I don't have enough right now”?

And so I want to remind you, when you were a medical student and not making any money you had enough. When you were a resident making between 30 and $50,000 a year you had enough. We need to get present to that now, not later.

And in case you're wondering, “How does she know that I had enough as a medical student or a resident?” Because you went through it and were okay. Meaning you had enough to eat, you probably had clothes. You were probably warm. You probably had a place to live. That what it means to have enough, to be able to take care of your needs.

Notice that these new circumstances of having money as a resident or if you're an attending did not magically make you feel better or magically secure about money. Because circumstances do not magically change your feelings or your internal world. It's what you think.

And so this internal work to align your thoughts and feelings no matter the circumstances, this is the work we do inside of Money For Women Physicians to get your inner emotional world to match now, not later. Why are you waiting to feel better later when you can have access to that now?

And so some questions I want to leave you with regarding this concept of wealth at every net worth is, how can you start feeling sufficient right now? When I mean sufficient it's to believe in your bones that you have enough right now.

Because so many of us have error, “I don't have enough. It's not enough or it could be more.” These are all similar ways of thinking that thought, “It's not enough, it could be better.”

How can you truly feel that you have enough right now? Remind yourself, do you have a home? Are you warm? Do you have enough to eat? The thing is I know that you have all those things and way more than that. And yet we're telling ourselves we don't have enough. We're telling yourselves it should be different.

But if we keep doing that then we don't get to be present to what we actually have now, to be grateful for what we have now. To be happy, to enjoy the experiences and what we have right now. And it's so easy to do that because it's the way our human brains work, we get used to everything we have.

And so maybe initially you were ecstatic by becoming an attending and maybe you upgraded the way you live and bought new cars or whatever, or took some nicer vacations and then you got used to it and forgot. And it's okay, we all do that.

But how can you remind yourself that you have enough? That you have actually more than enough. That you are sufficient, and that you can access this feeling of sufficiency no matter how much money you have in the bank, no matter how much debt you have or don't have.

Remind yourself so that when you do create more money, as your net worth increases you can get present to that too and celebrate it and feel amazing about it. But you have to feel amazing about it right now. I hope you found this concept super useful and I will talk to you guys next week.

Hey, if you enjoyed this episode and don't want to miss out on new episodes, please hit the subscribe button on your favorite podcast app. See you next week.

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The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | Are You Really Behind?

69: Are You Really Behind?

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The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | Are You Really Behind?So many of my clients talk about being behind. It's actually one of the most common limiting beliefs that people come to me with. And if you've ever had this thought, it's important that we start the work of unpacking it because no matter where you are right now, it's not true.

There are a few reasons why so many people start thinking this way when they see the progress or money their peers are making. But I'm breaking it down for you in this episode and exploring this belief because that is the only way this unhelpful thought pattern will ever disappear.

If you're stuck in the belief that you're somehow behind where you should be in your progress, I want you to listen in closely this week. I'm unpacking what we mean when we tell ourselves we're behind, how to reframe this idea of where we should be, and how to see that behind is just a thought that isn't serving us.

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

  • Why we tend to have this thought that we're behind.
  • How to question yourself and reframe the belief that you are behind, no matter who you're comparing yourself to.
  • The impact that believing you are behind actually has on your progress.
  • How to stop if you find yourself comparing and despairing.

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Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level your money and your life. I'm your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.

Hey everyone, welcome to Episode 69.

So today I'm going to talk about something that you definitely need to listen to. Of course, obviously, if you're listening right now you are listening, but you know what I mean. So many of my clients talk about being behind. That's probably one of the most common limiting beliefs that my clients have, is that they are behind.

Now this is in the context of money. And so I've been thinking about this. And thinking about, number one, why are they thinking this? I mean, it's kind of obvious, right? But two, how can I break this thought error down in a way where after I break it down for a client, you, it'll disappear? And so I think I've got it and I'm super excited to share it with you.

And so another version of saying “I'm behind” is “it's too late.” And there are a sort of few facets or angles to this belief, in my opinion. First, what does being behind even mean? How are you defining it? I really want you to answer this question for yourself. Because last time I checked, there wasn't a universal official manual that says, “By this age you should be here.”

So I think it's really important for us to define what does being behind mean? And also where should you be? So if you are behind, where should you be instead? And I think a lot of us haven't even thought about that latter question. Like where should I be if where I am now is behind?

Now, obviously, I can't read your mind but I'm guessing that most of us are thinking we should be where most of our other colleagues or friends seem to be at. Now, you can't see me but I put quotes around “seem to be at” because really, you have no idea where they actually are at unless you actually know the balances of all their accounts and what they do with their money.

So then how are you actually even deciding these things? Because when we look at other people, maybe our colleagues or friends or neighbors we're mainly looking at how they are spending their money publicly. Like what kind of car do they drive? What kind of house do they have? Maybe what schools do their kids go to? What kind of clothes are they wearing? What kind of bags do they have? What kind of vacations are they taking?

But you have to understand that these are what I call displays of external wealth. And all that means is that they are spending money on things you can see. But all of us conflate external displays of wealth, external displays of spending with their actual wealth. And I just want to remind you, they are not the same thing.

Another way that we tell ourselves that we are behind is by something called compare and despair. Now, I didn't create this term, I'm sure you've heard this before. But all of us do this. All of us compare ourselves to other people and then feel bad about ourselves, hence the word despair.

So first, I just want to say we all do this. It's human nature. Our status in the world is seemingly important to our brains. It goes back to the caveman days, right? Our status, being part of the tribe, being accepted, it seems really important to our survival. And so how many of us have gone down the compare and despair rabbit hole? You can't see me, but I'm raising my hand too.

So I'm going to give you some of my top tips to stop this compare and despair cycle. Number one, limit social media. This means not Facebooking, not Instagramming when you're bored. Now I'm not necessarily saying stop looking at social media. But you don't need to look at it all the time, or when you're bored.

Number two, when you notice that you're comparing and despairing I want you to take a deep breath and pause. And remind yourself that nothing has gone wrong. It's just your silly brain thinking that this is a big deal. You're not behind.

Number three, I just want to remind you someone else is comparing and despairing themselves about you. Take that in for a second.

Now, here is the problem with comparing and despairing, besides the fact that it feels horrible and we just feel terrible about ourselves. It's that when you're spending time in this, this means you're not focusing on growing yourself and spending time on you.

What I'm trying to say is that it's just not a great use of your brain thinking time. In fact, I would say it's completely useless. Meaning feeling terrible about yourself, beating yourself up, it never produces anything useful. But we all do this.

In fact, I have another episode planned where I'm going to talk about shame. And there's been a lot of judgment and shaming during the pandemic. And I actually witnessed a fight, a verbal altercation where I live. I live in a large, I guess, multifamily luxury building. And I watched this verbal altercation.

I'm not going to tell you the specifics, but basically the person who was upset just started yelling at the other person. And then there were some not so great words exchanged. And what struck me as I saw this altercation was that we somehow think that doing that, treating someone that way is going to result in the behavior that we want to see.

Now, I'm talking about this in the context of someone saying words to someone else. But this applies to how you talk to yourself as well. Because when you're comparing and despairing, you're basically not being nice to yourself. And for some reason we think somehow this is going to be useful.

Now, when I say useful, I mean going to result in some kind of net positive result, behavior, I don't know. But using that example of that altercation I witnessed, and I'm sure when someone has said not so nice words to you, it doesn't work. It doesn't work.

And so comparing and despairing doesn't work. That's my point. I know, it took me a long time to get there, but that's my point. Comparing and despairing does not do anything useful for you. Because really, the only thing or person you should be comparing yourself to is you.

Are you growing? Are you expanding? Everyone's on their own journey. I would say it's really only useful to compare if it's going to inspire you. And if you find that you don't do that automatically, and I don't think any of us do, but you can learn to start doing that for yourself. And this is where limiting social media is going to be really important for you, and spend more time focusing on your own growth.

Okay, now I want to talk about another aspect of the “I'm behind, it's too late” that I think will be really useful for you. So, when I thought about this limiting belief, the whole I'm behind or it's too late, it's only true if catching up will be hard or take a long time. And I think it's really the long time part that we focus on when it comes to it's behind or it's too late. Kind of meaning like it's too late to do anything about it. It's too late to catch up.

And as I thought about this more, I realized that I think this belief error comes from another belief error that's so common, and that it takes time, a long time and effort to make money. It makes sense, meaning that if you believe that it takes a lot of time and a lot of effort, and that it's hard to make money, then you will continue to believe that you are behind. And perhaps even believe it's too late and that it's hopeless, so why bother?

And so what I'm seeing is that if someone has been doing what they think they should have been doing, like putting away a certain percentage of their income for retirement like everyone else for years or so, then they tend to think this. Meaning I'm behind, it's too late. Which would make sense if you believe that it takes a long time and effort to make money or to invest.

But what if you're wrong about it taking a long time to create wealth? By the way, that is one of my favorite questions to ask myself when I want to disrupt a limiting belief. The question being, what if I'm wrong about this? Am I willing to be wrong about this?

And that could apply to even that thought error, “I'm behind.” What if I'm wrong about being behind? What if I'm wrong about thinking it's too late? Am I willing to be wrong about this?

But back to the original question, what if you're wrong about it taking a lot of time to create wealth? Are you willing to be wrong about that? Because what I'm seeing is that most of us have accepted that life and money go like some version of this, we go to school, we study hard, we get a job, and then we get paid an annual salary that's more or less fixed, and maybe we get raises.

So of course, you think it's too late, of course, you think you're behind. Because when you think that your salary is more or less fixed and you can't increase it, and you think that the only way to take care of your money, take care of yourself is to have put a certain percentage of money away for years and you haven't, then yeah, I would believe I'm behind, too.

So my question to you is, are you willing to think something different? Are you willing to be different? Are you willing to be uncomfortable? To try and fail, and fail? I'm painting such a rosy picture here, right? But that's what's required if you want to disrupt the status quo and do something different to create more money than you ever thought was possible.

What if you're wrong about it taking a long time to create wealth? I want to encourage you to dream big. What if it's not too late? What if you're not behind? What if you're just getting started? What do you want to create? How much money do you want to create?

I want you to answer these questions without thinking about how you're going to do it. Because that's what's going to stop you from dreaming big. Because your brain is going to think, “Well, I don't know how I would do that. So I don't think it's possible.”

What do you want to create? Just start with that question. Start with all the questions I've been asking in this podcast so far, actually. But I really want you to think about that. How much money do you want to create?

Alright, I'll talk to you guys next week.

Hey, if you enjoyed this episode and don't want to miss out on new episodes, please hit the subscribe button on your favorite podcast app. See you next week.

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The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | The Truth About Motivation

68: The Truth About Motivation

Apple Podcasts Spotify Stitcher

The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | The Truth About MotivationWhen it comes to recurring tasks, it's so common that we struggle for the motivation to carry them out. Sound familiar? Of course it does. We've all been there. And on today's show, I'm sharing what might be a surprising take on the whole motivation conversation.

I've talked about motivation on the podcast before, but I'm taking the discussion a little further on today's episode and framing motivation in a different way entirely. I had a client ask inside my program Money for Women Physicians about how she could cultivate more motivation. And what I told her will definitely surprise you, and hopefully, inspire you.

Join me on the podcast this week for a new perspective on motivation. I'm sharing what we choose to make a lack of motivation mean, why it's ultimately not a problem if you don't feel motivated, and how you can show up even when the idea doesn't exactly light you up.

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

  • How our brains make not feeling motivated a big deal.
  • Why motivation might not be as important as you currently believe.
  • What happens in our brain when we decide to show up even when we feel resistance.
  • How to choose to show up, even when you don't feel motivated.

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Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level and your life. I'm your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.

Welcome to episode 68.

So, I think it was the last episode that I talked a bit about a process goal versus a destination or a milestone goal. Now today I want to talk about motivation. Now, I already talked a bit about motivation before, I think it was episode 44. And we'll put that in the show notes so you can reference it if it's been a while or you haven't listened to that one yet. And now I want to sort of continue that conversation.

So recently on a group coaching call inside my program Money For Women Physicians, we do these weekly live coaching calls. They are by the way for lifetime access. And this topic came up actually with one of the members who was asking me to coach her on how to feel motivated.

Now, I don't remember the specifics but she had this recurring task she has to do and she basically told me that whenever it's time to do it in her schedule she doesn't want to do it. Does this sound familiar? Of course, we've all been there. Myself included.

And so what I told her may surprise you. This is what I told her, I said, “Okay, I'm happy to coach you on this and help you create some new thoughts.” Which she had done some of that already on her own. And I said, “There's actually another option that many people don't consider.” And so I asked her, before I even said about this other option I asked her, “Why do you think you need to feel motivated to do that task?”

And so I'm asking you this question for whatever that thing is that you've got to do but you don't want to. Like maybe it's clean up your office, for me it's clearing out my closet.

Now, on that episode on motivation, episode 44, I talked about focusing on the end result of the task versus the actual task. Now I'm here to tell you that that's not even necessary.

Let's go back to that client who wanted to feel motivated. So when I asked her that question, “Why do you need to feel motivated?” She paused for a few seconds and said, “Hmm, I never thought about that actually.”

And so that's when I presented the second option, that being motivated isn't actually required. What if it's not required to feel motivated? And what if we just expected to not feel motivated when that time comes? Because she told me, every week she puts it on the calendar and then when that time comes, I think she's got a timer, she's like, “Ugh, I don't want to do this.”

I think what happens is that there's something we have all the best intentions to do and then when it comes time to do it, we don't feel motivated. Our brains say, “I don't want to.” And then we think it's a big problem because we aren't feeling motivated.

But if you just expect that this will happen, that you're not going to feel motivated, well then you won't be surprised by the lack of motivation. Because really, so what if you don't feel like it? Feeling like it isn't required.

All right, sure, it's nice to have for sure. But it's not required. Because listen, if you're always expecting to feel motivated to get shit done, you're going to be waiting a long time.

Now, this doesn't mean that you don't coach yourself and spend time creating some motivating thoughts because our thoughts create our feelings. Motivated is a feeling. I just find that so many people don't consider that this other option is available where feeling motivated is not required.

Now, the episode, I think it was the last one where I talked about my goal of losing 10 pounds and instead, I decided to make it a process goal of developing the habit of working three times a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

And I'll tell you, pretty much every time it's time to work out, actually, every time so far, guess what? My brain says, “Don't want to work out.” And it immediately finds all sorts of other things that we can do instead. Like all of a sudden let's check email, there might be some important task to do.

But every time I do it anyway, despite my brain's objections. Despite never really wanting to work out, something happens. And this is important, I create more self-trust. I start to learn how to trust myself to do the things I say I'm going to do.

And each time as I develop this habit, this habit of doing things because I said I was going to do it even when I don't feel like it. The mental friction decreases.

Now, to this day, it's only been a few weeks, my brain hasn't said, “Yay, let's lift weights!” But the I don't want to voice gets a little quieter each time and I have so much less drama. I expect my brain to offer resistance whenever it's time to work out.

Like this morning, today is Monday and my brain, as usual, said, “Let's not work out.” In fact today my brain was pretty successful in distracting me for about 30 minutes. But I got on the bike and worked out anyway.

And so as you develop this habit, as you learn to trust that you'll do what you say you're going to do, you waste so much less time too. A lot of my clients, I coach on money not on time, get a lot of questions on time management. Time does not need to be managed, but your mind does.

I find that most of us waste a lot of time because we don't want to do things. And then we spend a lot of time arguing with ourselves or doing something else instead. But if we just did the thing that we want to do, even when we don't want to, you're going to find so much more time in your day to relax or to do nothing.

So here's my suggestion, the next time there's something you want to do, but then when the moment comes you don't want to do it. Remember, motivation is optional. It truly is.

Now, on a related note, I find that a lot of my clients think that at some point certain thoughts should just stop happening. Meaning your brain should just stop offering certain thoughts. And they're surprised when I tell them that's not the goal.

Again, it would be nice if that happened, just like it would be nice if we could feel motivated whenever we want to. I mean you can, remember it's just thought work. But sometimes it's just easier to just not deal with the thought work and just do it anyway.

And here's the thing with thoughts, negative thoughts, unuseful thought, they don't just stop happening in your brain. The difference between someone who “manages” their mind is that they understand that their brain is always going to offer unuseful thoughts like, “I don't want to do this. This isn't a good idea.” Especially when you're trying something new, especially when you're an entrepreneur.

The difference is, the person who has learned to manage their mind understands that those thoughts aren't a problem, that it's okay that they're there. So it's kind of similar to what I'm saying about motivation. It's great if you're feeling motivated, but it's also fine if you're not.

We always have the option to believe or not believe our thoughts. And when it comes to feeling motivated, I mean, the thought that you would need is basically I want to do that, or I want this. Or some version of that. And so when your brain offers up, “We don't want to do that” it's fine. You don't have to listen to your brain. You don't have to believe what your brain says. You really don't.

And so here's some of the things that I like to tell my brain when it's offering up thoughts like, “We don't want to do this. Let's do something else. Let's watch Netflix.”

Actually, I pretty much watch Amazon Prime. I'm currently watching the show Billions. If you haven't watched it, it's so good.

My two favorite things to say is, “Thanks for sharing, brain. We're going to do it anyway. That my second favorite thing I think I heard this from Jody Moore actually, it's “Settle down brain.” So whatever works for you. I think it's good to pick a little comeback to your brain when it starts having a tantrum basically because it doesn't want to do something new, like workout.

So I hope this was useful. I hope this helps you do the thing that you've been avoiding. And I'll talk to you guys next week.

Hey, if you enjoyed this episode and don't want to miss out on new episodes, please hit the subscribe button on your favorite podcast app. See you next week.

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The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | Process Goals Vs. Milestone Goals

67: Process Goals Vs. Milestone Goals

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The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | Process Goals Vs. Milestone GoalsI recently did an Instagram Story on what I call a process goal versus a milestone goal and I received a lot of interest around it, so I'm taking a moment on this week's show and going into this concept a little deeper for all of you.

When it comes to our goals, I find that many people seem to only focus on the end result when setting and working towards a target. And while there's nothing wrong with looking to the end, enjoying and learning on the journey provides so much more value in the long term. So, if you're pursuing a goal right now that maybe doesn't feel possible or like it's going anywhere, today's episode is essential listening.

Join me on the podcast this week to discover the benefits of process goals for achieving long-term success. I'm sharing how I've started implementing these goals in my own life, and how you can do exactly the same.

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

  • Why I love setting process goals for myself and what it has taught me.
  • How process goals will help you see yourself and what's possible for you in a new light.
  • What I found changed in the pursuit of my goals when I embraced the process part.
  • How to shift your focus and start the work of setting and pursuing process goals.

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Welcome to the Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level and your life. I'm your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.

Welcome to Episode 67.

So, I recently did an Instagram story on what I call a process goal versus a milestone goal. And so I wanted to spend a bit more time on this topic. By the way, if you're on Instagram, follow me. I'm @WealthyMomMD. And I share mindset and money tips there. Plus you get to see cute pictures of videos of my toddler and stuff that I cook.

Anyway, I digress. So, I did an Instagram story about process goals because I find that so many of us, we focus on the end goal. Listen, there's nothing wrong with focusing on the end goal. But you know that saying, you got to enjoy the journey. It's about the journey, not the destination.

And so I want to explain and talk about that a bit more. Because I used to get really annoyed when people would say that to me. Because we're like, “What are we talking about? All we care about is the destination.” But I also realized that when you focus so much on the destination, such as losing weight, that's the example I'm going to use for myself today, you kind of lose focus on kind of the whole point.

So let me tell you what I mean. So I have been sort of trying to lose five or 10 pounds for as long as Jack's been alive. So basically, since I was pregnant. The problem is, for me at least, is these 10 pounds, yeah, I would love to lose them.

But it was never like super urgent for me to do so. And then I would just get annoyed by having to plan what to eat and exercise and all the things. So it would just kind of fall off the radar because there are more important things to do than to lose five or 10 pounds to look nicer in a bathing suit.

So I realized the other day that what if I tried something different? Meaning instead of focusing on the end result of losing 10 pounds and looking at the scale all the time, I decided to actually focus on the process and the new identity that I would have to take on.

And so I call this a process goal. But if identity goal resonates more with you, use that. So what I decided to do was instead of focusing on losing 10 pounds, I was going to focus on becoming someone. So this is where the identity part comes in, being someone who works out, specifically lifting weights, three times a week. And I chose Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

Now when I decided to this just a few weeks ago, this totally shifted everything for me. Because now I shifted my focus, my energy from got to lose 10 pounds to figuring out something completely different.

Because then I thought about it and I was like, “Well, even when I lose the 10 pounds, then what?” It's not like I can just stop all the healthy habits. I still need to be someone who takes care of her body. Someone who works out, or runs, or whatever I want to do.

Now, I'm focusing on weightlifting because, as many of you probably know, after the age of 30 we lose a certain percentage of lean muscle mass every year. Plus I don't want to get osteoporosis. Plus, who doesn't want, you know, I'm not going for a six pack but who doesn't want a little bit of an ab line and some sculpted arms, right?

Also, when I focus on becoming the type of person that works out three days a week, the rest kind of follows. Meaning I'm going to automatically focus on eating better and taking care of my body. And losing weight becomes a natural byproduct of the process goal.

Because at the end of the day, the losing of the five or 10 pounds, that's not a destination. It's more like it's a stop on the way to being healthy and taking care of my body.

And so if there's a particular goal or destination that you've been, maybe struggling isn't the right word. But you just can't seem to get on board, try on the whole process versus identity goal.

So let's use a money example. And so a lot of my clients when they come to work with me, they don't know themselves as someone who's good with money or they don't see themselves as someone who takes care of her money. Now the end result that many of my clients want is wealth and freedom.

Amazing goals, amazing destinations. But if that's your sole focus, you kind of miss all the other amazing byproducts of that journey. And so this is something I talk a lot about with my clients. It's like, okay, having the end result is great because it gives you focus on the direction. But what's the process that's going to get you there? What are you going to have to learn? What habits are you going to learn?

And for money it's things like you're going to have to look at your money, look at the bank accounts. Inside a business like mine I need to look at my money pretty regularly to understand where it's going, where it's coming from, and things like that. I can't ignore it, right? That's not something a good businesswoman, a good CEO does.

And same thing for you with your personal finances. If you want to become great with money, if you want to learn how to build wealth you need to look at your numbers. You need to get into the habit of looking at them. And once you reach that destination of the money that you want, you don't just stop looking at the money, you still have to take care of.

And so I think this is just a great analogy for money. I'm just giving you my personal example from weight loss. And now I'm in week two and I will tell you, it's just been so nice to just focus on developing this new habit versus focusing on whether the scale is moving.

And so I think the next episode I'm going to talk a bit about motivation, which is going to kind of tie into developing new habits. And one thing I want to say about that right now is that I think as type A perfectionistic women, we give ourselves no margin of error when we're learning something new or doing something new.

And I see this a lot in weight loss. Now, I don't coach specifically on weight loss but it's a theme I see come up for my clients in particular. Meaning I'll see one of my clients being so hard on themselves when they eat something that they felt like they shouldn't have eaten.

And I just say to them, “Listen, if you knew how to do this, you wouldn't have to lose weight. You're learning something new. You're learning a new habit. You're learning how to eat, listen to your body. You're supposed to “mess up” you're supposed to make mistakes.”

We beat ourselves up, we feel so bad because we think we're not supposed to. What if you're supposed to? That's how you're going to learn. And don't even get me started about where we learned this. It's all from our antiquated education system where basically failure was punished and A's were rewarded.

Unfortunately, that sort of mentality doesn't work well for anything in life you want to accomplish. We think we're supposed to be perfect at every step of the way. Whether it's creating wealth, whether it's losing weight.

I've come to a point now in my life where I understand that I'm not always going to get the result that I want. I'm not always going to be perfect at anything. I'm not supposed to be. The good news is it's not required to be successful. In fact, failing is what's required to be successful, whether it's weight loss or money. Whether it's personal money, whether it's business.

So what goal or what destination have you been wanting to achieve but have been struggling with? Could you somehow do a process goal instead? A habit you want to develop? Or an identity goal? Like who would you have to be? What kind of person would have that goal or achieve that goal?

That question helps me a lot, what kind of person would have this thing already and what does she do? What does she think like? How does she behave? That helps me a lot.

I hope that was super helpful for some of you and I would love to hear if you create a process goal for yourself. So go ahead and email us or send us a direct message on Instagram. It's @WealthyMomMD and our email is support@wealthymommd.com I will talk to you next week.

Hey, if you're ready to create wealth, I want to invite you to join my program, Money For Women Physicians. You'll join a community of likeminded women physicians who are committed to creating wealth. Just head over to wealthymommd.com/money to learn more.

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The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | How to Handle Emotional Discomfort

66: How to Handle Emotional Discomfort

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Discomfort is such an important topic to get our heads around. We've been doing this work recently inside my program Money for Women Physicians, and I'm bringing it to the podcast this week. And if you feel some resistance to this subject of discomfort, what I'm sharing in this episode will help you see it through a new lens.

Some of you may have heard the quote from Brooke Castillo, “Discomfort is the currency of your dreams.” And so, I'm taking a deep dive into this quote, dissecting its meaning, and showing you how you can apply this to your life so you can have more money or more of whatever it is you want.

Tune in this week to discover what it really means to experience discomfort in the context of negative emotions. I'm sharing the thoughts that have us resisting this discomfort, and why more of what you want will be available to you when you can embrace it instead of running away from it.

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

  • What it means to be in emotional discomfort, why we fear it so much, and how it manifests.
  • Why, if you want to make more money, you will have to learn to deal with more discomfort.
  • How to look at the discomfort of things like failure through a new lens and be willing to experience it.

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Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level your money and your life. I'm your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.

Hey everyone, welcome to Episode 66. So today I want to talk about discomfort. Yep, you heard me, discomfort. So some of you may have heard this quote from Brooke Castillo, “Discomfort is the currency of your dreams.” And so what I wanted to do today was to take a deep dive into this quote and dissect it. And tell you how you can apply this to you so that you can have more money, or really anything you really want in life. You ready?

So we actually just covered this topic in depth inside of my program, Money For Women Physicians. We just had a lesson on feelings. And in case you're wondering what do feelings have in common with money? What do feelings have anything to do with money? Actually, quite a lot, which is what you're going to learn today.

And so first let me tell you what the dictionary definition of discomfort is. It said pain. Actually, it said slight pain. Now in this quote, “Discomfort is the currency of your dreams” we're talking about emotional discomfort. Not physical discomfort, like being sore from a workout. But it is a great analogy.

Now, some of you may have heard me talk about the motivational triad, which is the three things that motivate our primitive brain. So let me just do a quick summary in case it's been a while.

Our primitive brains are motivated by three things. It wants things to be easy, it seeks pleasure, and at wants to avoid emotional pain. Put that emotional pain on pause for a second while I explain the other two.

So our brains are basically lazy assholes, meaning that its primary purpose is to survive. And so in order to do that it wants to conserve as much energy as possible. Which means it wants to be efficient, or lazy, depending on how you look at it, right? And so if anything seems complicated, it's going to be like, “Ooh, this sounds like or this looks like it's going to take up a lot of energy. That is not a good idea. We need to conserve energy, let's do something else.”

It's seeking pleasure, meaning it wants to feel good, of course. Now, it wants to avoid emotional pain or emotional discomfort, kind of the same thing. Anything that feels like it might be a negative emotion or make us feel bad, well basically it ignores it or wants to do something else.

And so many of us are simply unwilling to experience emotional discomfort. Let me give you some examples. Feeling awkward, feeling embarrassed or even mortified, ashamed, the discomfort of failing. Which, if you really think about it all failing means is that you got a result that you didn't want. Meaning you wanted something and you didn't get it. That's what failure means. That's all it means; it doesn't mean anything about you.

The funny thing is, we aren't just unwilling to experience these negative emotions, we take it even further in that we're even unwilling to entertain the possibility of experiencing it by not even trying.

We call this failing ahead of time where you don't even try, because why bother? You might fail, you might make a fool of yourself. It's going to be awkward; it's going to be uncomfortable. You're going to be embarrassed. Why bother

But remember, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take, 100%. Think about it, guaranteed to fail if you don't try versus trying, taking action, maybe feeling some negative emotions because you didn't get the result you wanted, figuring it out, learning from that. You can only do that if you're willing to experience discomfort.

Now, when I say experience discomfort I don't mean, for example, let's say you give a talk and you make a few mistakes and you feel really embarrassed and so you run off stage. That's not experiencing negative emotion, that's running away from the negative emotions, right?

And so the reason we went over this inside my program in that what is the big deal about feeling a negative emotion? Like I really had everyone pause and as I explained, listen, emotional discomfort, basically a negative feeling, are simply you feeling sensations in your body. Sensations that are temporary. Sensations that dissipate, that go away. Yeah, they don't feel good, but they're temporary. And they're just sensations, they are physically harmless in the moment.

Now, there's a brain based reason why we are so terrified of experiencing certain negative emotions. Think about it, back in the caveman days if you made a fool out of yourself and created social separation between you and the tribe, that could impact your survival, right? Not being accepted.

It creates this weird, fear based response. It almost feels like we're actually physically in danger, except we're actually not. For the most part, if you listen to this podcast you probably live in a very safe part of the world, you have all the modern comforts of society. And so some of these really negative emotions, fear, et cetera, it's not the same as fearing for your life, but it can often feel that way.

What would you be capable of if you were willing to experience all the negative emotions? What conversations would you be having? Would you be asking your boss for a raise? Would you be taking some bold moves at work? Would you decide to start your own business? Would you be willing to have that hard conversation with that person that you know you need to have that conversation with?

What's the worst that can happen? If you really think about it, the worst that can happen is always a negative emotion. Now, you may think, “No, that's not the worst that can happen. The worst that can happen is I'm going to make a fool out of myself.” But why is that a problem? It's because of the shame that you expect to feel when that happens, right?

It really boils down to a negative feeling that you're trying to avoid. But remember, feelings are temporary. They are simply sensations in your body. Now, when I say sensations in your body, I literally mean you can feel them like you would feel your stomach growling when you're hungry.

Now all of us feel feelings differently in the body so I can't tell you exactly how or what you would feel sensation wise when you're feeling anxious or embarrassed. But I can tell you that when I get embarrassed, bordering on shame, like my face gets really hot, right? Like a wave of hotness, just I feel. And then maybe it like tingles and buzzes a bit. It's definitely one of the worst feelings I've experienced. But I've experienced it and I didn't die.

Your ability to experience negative emotions, and I know I'm speaking mainly about negative emotions but if you're someone that has trouble experiencing negative emotions, you also have trouble experiencing positive emotions.

And so here's a quick and easy exercise that I have my clients do when I teach them this concept of feeling negative emotions. I tell them, there's two things you can do, you can set a timer for five minutes, and I want you to do nothing.

I want you to notice what you feel. You're probably going to feel bored or restless or a little bit of both. Maybe you'll vacillate between the two. And you're probably going to want to do something about it. But you're not allowed to, you're just going to feel for five minutes.

Now when I say you're just going to feel, you're just going to notice all the thoughts that your brain offers. I want you to notice all the sensations in your body for five minutes. You can do that.

Another quick exercise is when, let's say you're sitting on the couch, whatever you're doing, and you hear your phone beep like the text message, or let's say a text message alert. I want you to not answer it for five minutes and see how you feel.

You're probably going to feel a little uncomfortable because we all know that phones, these devices, they're designed to get our attention, right? And so if it beeps your brains like, “Oh, got to check that. What if it's important? What if it's something cool? What if it's good news? Or what if it's bad news?”

And you're going to have to just deal with not answering it for five minutes and just notice what you feel in your body. I would say for me it's an awkward sensation because you want to answer that desire to check your phone, but you can't just for five minutes. Notice what comes up for you. You're going to learn a lot about yourself by doing these five minute exercises. I'll talk to you guys next week.

Hey, if you enjoyed this episode and don't want to miss out on new episodes, please hit the subscribe button on your favorite podcast app. See you next week.

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The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | Three Steps to Creating Wealth

65: Three Steps to Creating Wealth

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The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | Three Steps to Creating WealthI'm giving you unprecedented insight into the three-step process I take my clients through inside Money for Women Physicians. And the great news is you can start this process whether you're in my program or not. I'm just there to guide and coach you along the way, but giving this a try for yourself will have so much value.

This process will offer you so much information in terms of discovering your current habits with money, and what's standing in the way of you creating wealth, both in terms of money and the beliefs you're holding onto. Trust me, this episode is going to be a real eye-opener.

Join me on the podcast this week as I discuss my three-step process and how to implement it in your life. I'm giving you the step-by-step, using myself as an example so you can see exactly how transformative this process is.

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

  • What the three steps of this process are.
  • How this process plays out in practice, using myself as an example.
  • What you can do to implement this three-step process in your own life.

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Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level your money and your life. I'm your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.

Welcome to episode 65. So this episode is coming out, I think, my birthday week. My birthday is June 26th, I think it's a weekend this year. And I think I said on an earlier podcast episode that I love June. Partially because my birthday is in June. But I just love summer and June is the beginning of summer, the longest day of the year and I just love the long days that we have.

I'm in the northeast and so we do follow daylight savings so the days are really long, like 9PM before the sun sets. And so I'm doing something a little special for my birthday for you guys, you ladies. So you may have heard me talk about a book I'm writing, if not now you know I'm writing a book.

Actually the book is written and that's why I'm making this announcement. The book is called Defining Wealth for Women: Peace, Wealth, and Plenty of Cash. And the manuscript is done and we're doing revisions right now. Hopefully we'll wrap those up in the next six to eight weeks and figure out the graphics and all the finishing touches that goes into a book. And it has been quite a journey.

So the book isn't going to be coming out until probably September-ish. And there will be an audiobook version as well. But that won't be ready for a few months later. And that's because I won't be recording the book until this fall and so I didn't want to delay the actual book. So we decided to stagger the actual book launch and then have the audio book come out a few months later. And I'll be reading the book myself.

And this is a random aside but as I was talking to my book people; I was asking them about how they decided who reads the book because I listen to audio books, and you probably do as well, and I definitely find that the narrator makes a huge difference, right? I mean I've listened to books where I was like, “I can't listen to this book, the narrator sucks. Like the voice is weird or off.” And the few books that I've listened to where the author reads it I've loved it, especially if I knew the author already.

And so they were telling me that they don't always recommend the author reads the book, it really depends. I guess some authors don't have a great voice or they're not really not used to public speaking and so they might be awkward. And so I guess it was a compliment that I actually read my own book. And so I will be reading it, but once again we're not going to be doing that until the fall.

Okay, back to the book and my special gift for you. And so if you're on my email list- If you're not why aren't you? And in order to join in case you're not on it, you go to wealthymommd.com and you'll see an area I think just up top on how to join my email list.

If you join my email list, I do send a weekly email every Tuesday and it's what's on my mind. I try to share new things I'm learning and obviously little tips to get you to up-level your life. But you can only get the special gift if you're on my email list because you need to get the notification.

And so the special gift we're doing is for 24 hours only. And basically if you purchase Money For Women Physicians, my flagship signature money coaching program only for female physicians I will send you a signed copy of my book. And so go to wealthymommd.com, join the email list, or if you are you'll get the email later this week on how to get the special book bonus.

I'm so excited, we'll send you the book when it comes out this September. In fact you'll probably get the book before it's on sale because we'll get advanced copies.

So I'm really excited about this book, it has everything I've learned as a money coach, a little bit of the history of women and money, and all the bullshit socialization we have internalized as women that gets in the way of us creating wealth.

And so that is a prefect segue into today's topic. I'm actually going to be talking about the three step process I take my clients through inside Money For Women Physicians. Because you can do this process whether you're in my program or not, I'm just there to guide and coach you along the way. But I want you to know what the process is because you can do this for yourself as well.

And so I'm going to just quickly go through what the three steps are, then I'm going to go through them in detail. And then I'm going to tell you how this actually looks like in practice by using myself as an example.

And so the three steps are, number one, you got to know where you are, we also call this awareness. You have to sort of know where you are in terms of your money and where your mindset is. And so this is where you need to basically look at your numbers, like actually look at them. Where's your money going?

And this is also where you start understanding what's been in the way of creating wealth. Not so much money wise but mindset wise. What are the beliefs that have been in the way of creating wealth?

Number two, once you are able to look at your numbers and you sort of know what's going on, then you need to make decisions. This kind of seems obvious, right? You need to make decisions and take action.

Now, step three I call grow your mind and your money. So it's in the making of decisions by taking action that you learn, you evaluate, you see what happens by the decisions and actions you've taken. And as this is happening, you're growing your money and you're also growing your mind, which I'm sure you've heard me say are your best income producing assets.

Now I say this is three steps but it's not a destination, it's not like a linear journey. It's more like a cycle, it's an iterative process meaning you go through it over and over again. So I think it's best understood if I actually give you my example.

So when I first started my money journey it was basically the end of residency. Before that I was pretty much a hot mess when it comes to money, I often ran out of money every month. I got paid once a month during residency, so literally like the checking account balance was not looking good the few days before I got paid on the first of the month.

And so it wasn't until my last year of residency, I was armed with my first job offer and getting all the things from HR about my salary, 403B matching, all the things that were available to me. And so this was where I started in terms of step one.

Step one is basically know where you are. Look at your numbers. Look at where your mind is. And now in terms of look at my numbers there wasn't much to look at. I didn't have a lot of money but I knew what my incoming salary was going to be and I knew that I wanted to max out my 403B. I had sort of made that decision earlier, like I want to max it out, that seemed like a good idea.

And also in terms of where my mind was, I was new to money I didn't want to do anything weird and complicated. And to me I was like, “You know what? Figuring out what's available to me, AKA my 403B, made sense. And also figuring out my student loan payments at the same time.” And so that's where I was for step one of this process for this go around.

Now, step two I said is you've got to make decisions and take action. And so like I said, the decisions I made was I'm going to max out my 403B. And then I had to decide how I was going to invest it. Now, it I remember correctly at the time, I was new to this whole stock market investing thing so I was like, “I'm just going to pick a target fund.” Because they had Vanguard Target funds available.

I was like, “This is where I'm at, I don't really know what I'm doing.” But I knew enough that the target fund basically kind of did it for you. They picked the funds for you and re-balanced it every year, blah, blah, blah. So I was like, “That sounds like what I can handle right now so let me do that.” And so I did that myself, logged into I think it was Transamerica, I forget exactly, and I did it myself.

And so then we move onto step three, grow your mind and your money. This is where you sort of see the outcomes of your decisions, you learn from the action that you take. Because here's the thing, we doctors, we love to learn. We're so awesome at consuming information, but you got to carry out what you learn. You can't just passively learn. We call that passive action. You've got to take massive action and that means you've got to make decisions and take action.

And so I think I actually have an episode on decisions, so if you're someone who feels like you have trouble making decisions I definitely recommend that episode. But you have to make a decision to take action. I mean that make sense, right? It seems simple but not always easy.

After making that decision to invest my 403B I learned from that. I was like, “Oh, it wasn't that bad, I can do this.” And that builds confidence, when you take action and you know that you can do it. That just builds confidence and experience.

And so I completed sort of that initial cycle of the three step process and then I was ready to do more. Now when I say do more, I was able to open a Roth IRA and invest it myself. Sometime later I found out that my hospital offered a 457B, which is just another tax deferred retirement account. And so I learned about that and I invested that myself.

And it just becomes this iterative process where you learn more, you take action, you learn from it, you gain more confidence. And then you feel like you can do more. And so I did that for, honestly, the first few years. And it took me several years, it seems like anyway but maybe it was three or four years before I was ready to go to the next thing. Before my mind was ready for something new besides just vanilla retirement accounts.

And so then I decided to invest in real estate syndications. And my first syndication investment deal was $10,000. And I remember being really terrified of investing in one of those because it was new, it was unknown. I had to really work on my mindset to have the courage to just take the leap and do that.

But once you make that decision, step two take action, learn from it, realize, well, A, I didn't die of course. And that I learned something and that wasn't that hard. I gained more confidence. And then we were able to actually buy our first property during the pandemic last year. Same process

And this is what I mean by it is an iterative process, because you make decisions based on what you know. I really encourage my clients to meet themselves where they're at.

I think when it comes to money people think, not that it's complicated but that they have to figure everything out all at once and if they don't then they're doing something wrong. And so much drama, I think, just gets diffused when I just allow my clients to be beginners. Of course you don't know anything about money, let yourself be a beginner, just start where you are right now.

I always have my clients start with what they have. And most of my clients who are typically employed physicians they'll have a 401K or something similar to work. I invite them to learn about what they have right now before getting fancier. And that's kind of my motto I borrowed from Amy Porterfield, start simple, get fancy later.

Now, I mentioned before that the first time I ever invested it was a target fund. So as I learned more, this was probably like a year later, I actually moved the investments from the target fund to individual index funds, or individual ETFs because I became more comfortable and learned more.

I use the same process inside my business. What decisions and what mindset you need to get started is very different from actually running it and then scaling it beyond 100K. And so this is why I invest so much in coaching, which is basically investing in my mindset, investing in my brain, so that I can go through these reiterative processes faster and faster. Do you see what I'm saying?

The more that you can grow your mind and make decisions quicker, you can go through this process quicker and quicker. Now listen, this is not a race, I'm not saying that you should go quicker, but if you're someone who would like to, the easiest and quickest, no pun intended, way to do that is to get coached. And that's what we do inside of Money For Women Physicians.

I help my clients make decisions. And the quicker you can make decisions, the quicker you can take action, the quicker you can gain experience, the quicker you can get comfortable, create confidence. The quicker you can go back to step one and keep going and keep going.

I have clients who, I first offered my program in 2019, who started and they had their basic retirement accounts but they weren't doing anything else. And not even two years later and they have invested in so much real estate syndications, properties, and having a good cushion of income coming from there. And that's just in two years versus waiting decades, right?

And so that's why I'm such a huge fan of coaching, not just for my clients but for myself. That's why I pay for coaching, so I can learn to go through this process faster and faster for my business. And then I just pass on what I learn to you, my clients.

And so I hope you got a lot out of listening to the process that I teach inside my program and the process you can go through as well for money. And honestly this three step process isn't just for money. You probably could hear that you could really use it and apply it to any goal that you want.

And this is also one of the reasons why personal finance is so personal. I really don't believe there's one dogmatic way for you to do your money, we're all on our journeys. But as someone said, success leaves clues. There's a reason maybe why so many wealthy people own businesses and real estate, it's not an accident. It might be a coincidence, right? All right, well I'll talk to you guys next week.

Hey, if you're ready to create wealth I want to invite you to join my program, Money For Women Physicians. You'll join a community of like-minded women physicians who are committed to creating wealth. Just head over to wealthymommd.com/money to learn more.

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The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | Your Relationship with Money

64: Your Relationship with Money

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The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | Your Relationship with MoneyWe know that our human relationships really come down to what you think about the other person. And your relationship with money is actually not that different in terms of how we should approach it and what makes for a healthy relationship.

Now, I truly believe that your relationship with money is a surrogate marker of your relationship with yourself. So, with that in mind, if money was a person that you're in a relationship with, what kind of relationship is it? And is it serving you and allowing you to grow?

Join me on the podcast this week to discover how to put your relationship with money into perspective. I'm sharing the impact that doing this work will have on your life as a whole, and how you can foster a healthier relationship with money.

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

  • Why having a healthy relationship with money is so important.
  • What you can do to get clear on your current thoughts and feelings around money.
  • How to improve and develop a more loving relationship with money.

Listen to the Full Episode:

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Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level and your life. I'm your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.

Welcome to episode 64. I hope everyone's enjoying their, I was going to say summer, but it's actually early June. So I guess it's not the summer. But we have had a crazy heatwave over here, I live in northern New Jersey. And so it feels like August almost.

Anyway, today, I want to talk about your relationship with money. Now, this might seem a little different than what I usually talk about, which is coaching topics around money. And speaking of coaching, we are just wrapping up Self Coaching Mastery. It's a four part course I'm doing inside of Money For Women Physicians, so it's included if you join us.

And so we're doing it live but obviously it's recorded, and there's worksheets and everything. And I'm taking everyone through the self-coaching model specifically so that you, my clients, can learn how to coach themselves.

I know that might seem a little maybe counterintuitive, like why would I teach my clients how to coach themselves? Like don't I coach them? Yes, I do. And it actually creates a more abundant relationship. My clients can actually coach themselves as well, because they can come to me with some awareness of what's going on and I just take them a little deeper.

And so relationships really come down to what you think about the other person, which is the second line of the self-coaching model, the T line, right? And so many of us when we think of relationships we think of other people.

And I actually did a podcast on relationships specifically. And so if you haven't listened to that, or it's been a while, I definitely encourage you to go listen to that episode because what we're going to talk about today is actually not that different to how you should approach your relationship to money.

I'm going to take things further because I think the relationship you have with money is basically like a surrogate marker to your relationship to yourself. So, tell me, if money was a person that you're in a relationship with, what kind of relationship is it?

And maybe I should have backtracked and actually asked you this first. Do you even have a relationship with money? Were you confused when I asked you if money was a person that you're in a relationship with, what kind would it be?

Basically, what I'm asking is, what are your thoughts about money? Because when you think of a friend, think of someone that you're in a relationship with, maybe it's your partner, husband, or maybe a child or a friend, what starts happening is you start thinking about them. You have thoughts about them.

It's funny, like when I ask people what does being in a relationship with, like most of us haven't thought about it, first of all. And I think many of us think of a relationship between two people as being something that's outside of themselves, like almost like in between another person. But if you really think about it, it really comes down to what you think about a person. Of course, it involves what they think about you. But really, it's what you think about them, and maybe what you think they think about you.

Now, maybe you're not even consciously aware of the thoughts you have about money. So try this question instead, how do you feel when you think about money? Like when I say the word money, like what is your sort of immediate response in your body? Is it positive or negative? Are you feeling anxious, stressed, overwhelmed?

I really want you to notice what you're actually feeling in your body. You don't feel with your brain, you don't feel in sentences, you feel in your body. So you may have to close your eyes and really just, I almost said, think about it, but I really want you to close your eyes and just like where are you feeling it? And is your body like expanding or like constricting?

When I say expanding that tends to be what we call positive emotion. When I say constricting, that's generally a negative emotion, right? And so inside my program, Money For Women Physicians, we actually have a whole lesson on the different money relationship types or archetypes, if you will. But they're really just based on the common collective thoughts that I've seen people have about money.

So are you waiting for money to grow up? Are you telling money, like maybe not telling money because no one's talking to money, right? But are you like thinking like, “Wow, you're not enough?” Is it like kind of a dependent relationship where, you know, you love spending time with money, but then you totally ignore it even though money is trying to get your attention?

Whatever you're thinking or feeling about money I want you to imagine how you would talk to a young child. So if you're a mom, this is easy, you think of your child, even if they're older. Would you talk to them like the way you talk to money?

Now, if you're having trouble with this talking to money thing, like just think of the feelings. Like if you're having negative feelings about money, like do you have that about your child? Like hopefully not, right? Do you like how you're thinking and feeling about money?

For most of us the answer is no. And most of my clients, they have a really unhealthy relationship to money. And as I said earlier, I think the relationship you have to money is a reflection of your relationship to yourself. Which is basically how you think about yourself and how you treat yourself.

For example, when you make a mistake or do something you're not proud of, how do you talk to yourself? How do you treat yourself? I find that, you know, my clients, which are mostly female physicians, type A, successful women, we're so hard on ourselves. We're so mean to ourselves. And I find that we're so mean to ourselves that we don't even notice that we're mean to ourselves, because we've been doing it for so long.

It's like we're fish and we're in water and the water is just mean, but we don't notice it's mean. It's just the water, it's all we know. But I think we can all agree here that whatever we tell ourselves, however we treat ourselves, we wouldn't do that to a young child.

Now, tell me, does berating someone, or shaming someone, being judgmental, does it ever create any positive action? No, it doesn't motivate people. Like we know that logically because I'm pretty sure that if someone tried to shame you or be judgmental about you, thinking that that would be the way for you to change your behavior or your mind, like no, that doesn't work. And so of course it's not going to work with money, or your child for that matter.

And here's the other side of the relationship piece with money, we talked about what you think about money, how you think and feel about money. What do you think money thinks about you? That's kind of a strange question to think about, right? What do you think money is trying to tell you? Is it trying to talk to you? Is money trying to be in a relationship with you? What are your thoughts about that? Kind of a strange way to think about it, right?

So here are sort of my tips on how you can improve your relationship with money, which basically means how to have better thoughts and feelings about money, right? Well, first, you have to not be thinking that it's a fight or a struggle. We need to neutralize things. We need to diffuse things.

I would just start by acknowledging money. Appreciate it. Appreciate what you have. You have money. You've been able to do amazing things, have amazing experiences because of money. So acknowledge it, appreciate it. Money is an amazing tool to create the life and experiences you want.

So because you're listening to this probably on your smartphone, maybe even in your car driving, wow, that's amazing that I can do this. I so appreciate you, money, thank you. I get to learn new things from this amazing device in the comfort of my car, or home, wherever you may be. That is amazing.

Now, all I'm really doing, I know this might sound silly, but all I'm doing is just telling a different story to myself about money. It's all made up, you know, right? You may as well tell the best version of the story that feels great. Because guess what? Generally speaking, you're going to want more of what feels good.

And I'll tell you what doesn't feel good, is to tell the story of how you don't have enough money and how you can't do the things. Or whatever you feel like you can't do because of money, versus focusing on what you do have and how you can get more of it. Because our brains love pleasure.

And so if you tell yourself the best version of your current money story, you're going to want more of that. Your brain is going to want more of that. It's like, “Wow, this feels awesome. This is amazing. Like how do we get more of that?”

So what is the most impressive way that you can look at your numbers, your money? Most of us kind of, unfortunately, default to the least impressive way or the most sad version of the story about money.

You know, someone once told me like we can't get there, whatever there is for you, by being miserable our way there, hating ourselves there, hating our way there. Like that just makes sense, right? And so that's my sort of parting assignment for this episode, is every day I want you to ask yourself, what is the most impressive way to look at my numbers? What is the best story I can tell myself today about the money I do have? Focus on that. I'll talk to you next week.

Hey, if you enjoyed this episode and don't want to miss out on new episodes, please hit the subscribe button on your favorite podcast app. See you next week.

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The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | Lessons Learned from a Weekend of Coaching

63: Lessons Learned from a Weekend of Coaching

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The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | Lessons Learned from a Weekend of CoachingI just got back from a weekend away and realized I didn't have any content recorded for this week's podcast. However, my weekend was spent at a coaching retreat with the incredible Kara Loewentheil, so I have lots to share from that experience and that's what we're doing today.

I love in-person coaching, and I learned so much from the past weekend. So in this episode, I'm giving you the biggest takeaways I got, some of which really surprised me. I coach all my clients and teach self-coaching, but honestly, there is no substitute for sitting down with a trained coach and letting them go to work on your brain. And in this episode, you'll discover why.

Join me on the podcast this week as I discuss my lessons learned from a weekend of coaching with Kara Loewentheil. She asked all of us attending to answer some questions, and what happened next was so eye-opening. I'm sharing how I have reevaluated everything I thought wasn't possible for me, how to remove the drama from the stories we tell ourselves, and why self-love is always available, no matter how distant it seems.

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

  • Why, even though I'm a coach who specializes in money, I still have work to do myself in this area.
  • How we get it so wrong when we're telling stories about our circumstances around money.
  • Why I have decided to always tell a story about my money that doesn't make me feel terrible, even if it seems delusional in the moment.
  • How I was coached this past weekend on some of the things I thought just weren't possible or available to me, and it turns out they are.
  • Why when emotions are high, intelligence is always low.
  • What you can do to remove the drama out of any story you're telling yourself.
  • The truth about self-love and where so many people, myself included, get it wrong.

Listen to the Full Episode:

Featured on the Show:


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Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level your money and your life. I'm your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.

Hello, everyone. So, I just got back from a two-day in-person coaching retreat in New York City. I live just over the bridge, so that was very easy for me to attend. And it was with Kara Loewentheil.

And so many of you may not know who she is. She is a master certified life coach. She trained at the Life Coach School like I did. And before she became a coach, she was a lawyer. She has a JD from Harvard and I believe, I might be getting this detail wrong, she worked in social justice, specifically for women's rights.

So, I wasn't actually planning to talk about my weekend with her, at least not immediately, because it just happened the weekend of June 5th and 6th. But I returned from New York City last night – today is Monday June 7th – and my podcast producer emailed me saying that they didn't have the file for this week's podcast.

Now, I was under the impression that the podcast for this week was already recorded. I tend to record in batches, two to three at a time so I don't have to record podcasts every week. Batching is definitely one of my – I wouldn't call it a secret, but definitely one of the ways I lump together similar tasks to get them out of the way.

So, when she told me that she didn't have a podcast, I was like, “Oh.” And then I decided that I had to record on today so that this would come out on time for this week. Then I thought, “Oh, how is this perfect? I can just discuss what I learned this weekend,” which was so much.

And so, that's what I'm going to do today. I'm going to share my biggest takeaways from my two days of coaching with Kara. There were, I think, 10 of us, maybe 11 people getting coached by her. And so, I'm going to discuss my biggest takeaways and then I'm going to say a few things – I took copious amounts of notes – that are still sort of percolating and infusing in my brain and I'm still processing so to speak. And so, that's what we're going to do today.

So, how it worked was each day, she had us answer three questions for ourselves and we didn't have to necessarily answer each question. But they were sort of springboards for figuring out what we wanted coaching on.

So, let me start with day one questions and then I'll go through what I got coached on day one, then I'll move on to day two. And then, I'll finish with some other tidbits that I learned that really resonated with me.

So, here are the three questions she asked on day one. What's the most stressful or painful issue in your life right now? Question two, what is the problem you believe you will never be able to solve or have been trying to solve for a long time? Number three, what have you resigned yourself to living with forever?

And so, I'm going to share how I answered some of these questions. And so, for the first one, I first wrote, “Maybe some of my past friendships in terms of how they ended.” And then I also wrote, “I don't like my current phone use. I feel that I'm spending a lot of time on the phone when I'm not working in particular and I'm doing that at the expense of spending time with my family.”

For the second question, I wrote, “Being able to fully love myself and other people.” And for number three, which is what have you resigned yourself to living with forever, basically it came down to a lot of compare and despair.

And so, basically that, “Can I really do whatever I want? Can I really make millions of dollars and be like them?” them being other entrepreneurs that I look up to.

So, the first thing I got coached on was around money. And it's so funny. I tell my clients this all the time, but now I'm going to tell on myself right now, in that even though I'm a coach and I'm skilled in coaching my clients, it doesn't mean I'm necessarily skilled at coaching myself and can apply the same coaching to myself because when it's you, when it's your brain, you think it makes sense and you're the exception to the rule. This is always the case.

And although you can learn to skillfully self-coach yourself, and I do self-coach myself, there are just some areas where you just can't make traction because you're so in it, right?

And so, I was having drama about the numbers in my business and also about my inability – and notice I use that word, inability – to really have the dream house that I want. So, let me start with the drama of the numbers in my business.

And if you're one of my clients right now, whether you're Money for Women Physicians or one of my one on one clients, you know that I will always coach you to get to a very specific circumstance of your numbers.

People will say things, “Well, I'm running out of money,” and they'll say it to me as a fact. And I know that's not a fact. The fact is, what is the actual balance in your bank account? And the way people talk about these balances, it's as if there's zero dollars in it or less than zero dollars.

And so, it's just so important to really get to the neutral numbers of what's actually happening. And the way you know that you got to the neutral numbers is that you don't have an immediate negative feeling about them, or even a positive feeling. You just kind of feel neutral. You're like, “Oh, these are just the numbers. Now what?” That's what I mean.

So, if you're telling yourself the numbers in a way that's causing a lot of pain or suffering or anxiety, that means you haven't gotten to the specific neutral numbers. And the way I was talking about my business numbers was I was literally stating it as if they were facts. This is just what we all do. All of us do this.

Meaning I was saying, “Oh it's negative…” whatever number, and of course Kara is like, “Don't say negative. What are the actual numbers?” I didn't have them off the top of my head, but a more neutral circumstance would be to actually list the balances of all the business accounts, for example.

The second thing I took away from this is that there are so many ways you can think about or tell the story of what's happening looking at these numbers, so many different ways. But we think – or rather our brains think there's only one way to tell that story.

And it really got me thinking, of course I know this for my clients, but for me it's like, I always tend to focus on kind of the worst version of the story ever. How many of you do this too with whatever is going on in your life? Like you just think of the immediate worst-case scenario that makes you feel horrible.

And what I learned this weekend is you really can tell whatever version that you want. And if you're listening to this and you're like, “But that's being untruthful or…” my favorite word, “That's being delusional.”

But here's the secret. It's all made up. All of it. You may as well make up a story that feels good, or at least doesn't feel bad. Because one thing I realized is, when I really got to the heart of this, I think our brains – at least mine – thinks that for some reason – and even saying it out loud I'm kind of laughing because it sounds so illogical.

We think that somehow feeling bad about it is the way to not feel bad about it. I'm going to say this again. We think somehow that feeling bad about – and I'm talking about money in this sense – feeling bad about money, somehow we think that's the way to feel good about it.

And as an extension of this, we think beating ourselves up or shaming ourselves is going to motivate us to be better. Because I know we all do this. Because most of you listening are my people, meaning we are type-A women physicians, other professionals, we think beating ourselves up is going to be useful.

Of course it's not useful. Think of the last time someone was rude or mean or said you're not doing it right in a mean way, did it actually motivate you to do better? No, of course not. So, why do we think that would work to ourselves?

And the truth of the matter is, our brains want to feel good. Remember, it's partially motivated – it's highly motivated by pleasure. And like, so the way to actually feel better is to actually feel better.

I'm just laughing because I know this sounds so obvious, but sometimes our brains make up these really weird rules and linear, like, step one, step two, step three that make absolute nonsense.

So, this is why I get coached and why I pay for coaching. Because at the end of the day, my brain is always going to spew nonsensical things that make no sense. And it takes a third party, a trained coach to be like, “You know that doesn't make sense, right?”

So, that was one of my biggest takeaways right there. Now, let me tell you the day two questions she asked us. The day two questions were, what is a dream you won't admit to yourself? Number two, what do you want that you don't believe you can have? What would blow your mind to believe, feel, do, accomplish, or create?

And so, let me find my answers here. So, for the first one, I didn't actually answer it because I didn't really feel like there was a dream I wasn't admitting to myself. And so, the second thing was what do you want that you don't believe you can have? So, I said that I wanted a big open condo or penthouse or a house with a pool. Either way, I wanted a pool.

For the last part, what would blow your mind to feel, accomplish, et cetera, I wrote to love myself, love my business, love all the people. And of course, in my brain, I'm thinking these are big things and it's going to take a while for her to coach me.

She got through it in like five minutes. And I'm just laughing because it's so obvious when someone else coaches you sometimes. So, let me talk about the thing that I want that I didn't believe that I could have, which is a big expansive apartment, like a penthouse type think, or a house with a pool.

And so, she literally asked me like, “You know you could have that right now, right?” And of course I was like, “No I can't.” And she's like, “Do you think you could have this in another state, another town?” And I said, “Oh, I guess I could have that in Indiana right now, I could buy a place.”

And so, what she taught me is that the reason why she asked that or pointed that out is because right now I had the identity of someone who can't have that versus getting more specific, like someone who can't have that type of house, condo where I live right now, which is Northern New Jersey, which is a relatively expensive area, high cost of living, right?

And then she took it even further. She's like, “Well, do you know how much that would cost right now?” And I said, “Yeah, probably around 1.5 million for a house with a pool, for a house that I want with the pool that I want.” And she's like, “Okay, well what could you buy right now if you wanted to?” And I said, “We could probably buy a million-dollar home, close to that.”

She's like, “Okay, so it's really a math problem, meaning the difference is $500,000. Do you think you could figure out how to make up that difference?” And I said, “Absolutely.”

So, what she did there in case it's not obvious to you, she just removed all the drama out of it. Because when you're saying something like, “Oh, I can never have the house I really want with the pool,” it's so freaking dramatic. And so, she really reduced – she removed the drama out of it literally by focusing on the math, which is what I do for my clients.

When you focus on the pure math of things, it removes the drama. And I also learned that when the drama decreases, you know you're on the right path. Because you've heard that saying, at least I have, “When emotions are high, intelligence is low.”

So, when things are dramatic in your brain and so big and heavy, you just aren't smart about what you're able to see. And then after we had this conversation, I kind of sheepishly mentioned, well, so I don't own my place right now but I do live in a luxury high-rise building and we actually have a pool. And of course she just started cracking up because she's like, “Okay, so you actually have the home you want with the pool, maybe you just don't own it.”

And I was like, “Yeah, I do.” So, that was just kind of funny to realize, I actually have what I want. Maybe I don't own it, but I actually have it. And if I want the more specific thing that I want, it's just a math problem that I can solve for, versus there's something wrong with me and I can never have what I really want.

Okay, so let's go to the self-love bit. This is something that has been kind of the theme of my year. And maybe some of you have heard me talk about, like, I picked the word love as my word for 2021, in case some of you do something similar.

And this all started when I spent the day with Brooke Castillo back in February for an in-person retreat. Can you see a theme here? I love to get coached. And that was all about exploring our relationships with ourselves.

And I basically had this idea that self-love was a destination, meaning that once I got there, I would feel wonderful all the time, love myself, love my family, love my clients, love all the people so effortlessly. And notice if you do something similar.

Maybe it's not about self-love. Maybe it's like – I have a podcast on this, The Retirement Myth, about the arrival fallacy. A lot of us think, “Once I get the money then life will be better.” We all do this with different things, “Oh if this job was this way then life would be better.”

But we think life will be better permanently, but that's just ever the case, but it's just a lie that our brains tell ourselves. And so, I had basically made up that self-love was a destination.

And she explained it so simply, I was like, “Oh, really? That's what it is?” And so, this is what she said, “Self-love is just having a relationship with yourself. It's like loving other people.” And so, she asked me, name someone you love, and she knew I had a partner and Jack, and so for those of you out there, maybe it's a parent or a dear friend that you love.

She's like, “It's like that. Do you always think about them?” And I said no. She's like, “Do they ever annoy you? Do they ever do things that you don't like?” I'm like yeah, she's like, “Do you still love them?” I'm like, “Yeah. She's like, “It's like that.”

And like in a snap – I'm trying to snap here, I'm not a very good snapper – I was like, “Oh, really? That's it?” She's like, “Yeah, it's just cultivating a relationship with yourself and understanding that you have a relationship with yourself and that you can love yourself but not necessarily like everything about you, and that's okay.”

And just like we have friends that we love and there might be things about them that we don't like, for example, I have a dear friend, I love her, she's late a lot, which irks me to no end. Like, annoys me a lot. I still love her.

So, it just gave me a lot more space with myself because I had basically thought of the definition of self-love in this tiny little box. And if I wasn't in the constraints of that box then that meant I hadn't achieved self-love. So, I'm hoping that's helpful for a lot of you as well. It just gives you a lot more compassion.

Like, “Oh, self-love doesn't mean that I have to always be thinking about myself or always feeling love for myself.” It's just being aware that we do have a relationship with ourself. And the more we could improve that, it will just automatically extend to other people. And this includes not beating ourselves up because the more we can have compassion for ourselves in the areas that we don't necessarily like about ourselves, that will automatically extend to other people in the form of not judging people.

Okay, so those were my personal takeaways and I just wanted to say a few other items that I learned from this weekend. So, this wasn't my personal coaching experience. This was someone else's. But it's about money so I want to talk about it.

And so, there's this concept in coaching I don't think I've specifically talked about on the podcast yet, but I obviously will. It's something called all or none thinking, also known as black and white thinking. And it's something our brains do and it's something especially type-A perfectionistic-thinking women do. Which is where we think there are only two options and they're at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

And so, this person was getting coached around money saying that she's not good with money. And of course, Kara said, “Why do you think you're not good with money?” And then started just asking all of us, what does being good with money mean? What does being bad with money mean? And what are our definitions of tat? Because all of us have definitions of what that means.

And what struck me is that being good with money, being good with anything – so we can insert being a good mom, being a good physician, being a good lawyer does not mean you are perfect all the tie. Meaning you can be good with money and make money mistakes. It's not either-or, but we do this all the time. We think things are either-or. I see this a lot with my clients around being rich and happy or being rich, happy, fulfilled, and contributing to society, as if being rich means you can't be those other things.

And then, another important thing that I think is so important for you to hear is that if you are not efficient with what you have now – this could be money or time – having more won't make it better. I'm going to say it again then sort of explain what I took away from this.

If you are not efficient with the money and time you have now, having more money and time won't solve the problem. Meaning if you're thinking, “Oh, well I'll be better with money, I'll be able to make a budget and stick to it once I have more money,” it's actually not going to get better when you have more money. It's just going to scale. The problem will literally scale.

And this is something my business coach talks about, meaning whatever problems you have in the business now, they are just going to magnify as the business brings in more money.

It's the same with time. How many of you are thinking, “I don't have more time? If I had more time, I could go this or that.” Having more time doesn't solve the problem. I can tell you right now, I personally do not have an, “I don't have enough time,” problem. I have a lot of free time. And I don't necessarily get everything done just because I have more time.

But how many of us are thinking this? When this happens or if I have more of this, it will be better, it will be easier. You need to figure out how to do it now with what you have. It's not going to magically just get better. It's not a circumstance or an outside problem.

I think we think, “Well if I had more money, which is out there outside of me, then that will fix our problems.” But it's a thinking or brain problem. So, I hope that's resonating for you because that really struck me.

Here are some other sayings that I learned. One of my favorite questions is, what if I'm wrong about this? Maybe my brain is wrong about what's possible for me. Like, just being in this curiosity, like what if I'm wrong about this? What if we are wrong about this?

We talked about how money doesn't create safety or security because money itself doesn't create any of that. It's what you think about money, it's what you think about yourself.

Alright, so the last thing I wanted to say in terms of takeaways, there are so many I'm just sort of cherry-picking here. And I kind of said this earlier when I said it is actually a choice to tell ourselves the best version of what happened. And so, here is a question she posed to us. What is the most impressive way to look at my numbers? Because we can't get there by hating our way there.

That's how I wanted to end my biggest takeaways from spending a weekend coaching with the most amazing Kara Loewentheil. And so, I hope you learned something for yourself. And in case you're wondering, this weekend definitely made me think, wouldn't this be fun to do for my clients?

You know, I had a retreat planned and it is canceled for right now, but this weekend made me think, you know, it was just so nice to be with other people. We were all vaccinated and that was one of the requirements was that y'all had to be vaccinated to attend. And so, I'm thinking of doing something similar. And so, watch out for that announcement. I will talk to you ladies next week.

Hey, if you're ready to create wealth, I want to invite you to join my program Money for Women Physicians. You'll join a community of likeminded women physicians who are committed to creating wealth. Just head over to wealthymommd.com/money to learn more.

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The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | Thoughts About Money and Wealth with Stacey Boehman

62: Thoughts About Money and Wealth with Stacey Boehman

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The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | Thoughts About Money and Wealth with Stacey BoehmanI'm going to start introducing you guys into the world of my coaching. I'll be featuring past and current clients on the show in the future, but today I have a really interesting conversation for you with my business coach Stacey Boehman. I've been in Stacey's masterminds for a year already, and after today's episode, you'll see why I plan on hanging around for years to come.

Stacey Boehman's is one of the most incredible stories in the world of coaching. She came from humble beginnings, but the way she has built wealth and changed her mindset around money is truly something to behold. And I love borrowing thoughts from other people, so when it comes to money, there is no one I'd rather borrow a thought from than Stacey.

Tune in this week as Stacey shares with us how her thoughts about money have changed over the years and how the way she operates has changed since she started accumulating wealth. We're discussing the money drama that we see come up for our clients, and why more money never means less money drama.

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

  • Stacey's story from humble beginnings to seven-figure entrepreneur.
  • Where Stacey was in her life when she realized she needed to make some serious changes.
  • How Stacey scraped together the money to pay for her coach training.
  • The lessons that Stacey's first coach taught her about money.
  • Why Stacey always believed that making more money was possible for her.
  • Where I see parallels between Stacey's story and my clients in terms of really understanding money.
  • Why the money drama doesn't stop when you have multiple millions of dollars.
  • The thoughts Stacey has about her money that she believes are serving her the most as her wealth grows.

Listen to the Full Episode:

Featured on the Show:


Read the transcript Expand

Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level your money and your life. I'm your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.

Hello, everyone. So good to be back and speaking to you all. And so, I have a special guest today. But before I introduce her, I want to say that I am sort of starting this quote unquote unofficial mini series on my podcast.

So, what I want to do is basically bring on people. And so today is my business coach. But likely will be current or past clients or people inside Money for Women Physicians. And I'm going to interview them because I think it's really important to see examples of where people were, where they are now, besides just hearing my examples.

I'm sure you love hearing snippets from my life, but I think it's really important to see different types of people, different backgrounds, and to kind of see their journey. Because then you can see yourself in them as well. And also, you can totally borrow what they believe about money. There's no belief police, as we say. You're allowed to believe whatever you want.

And I am always, I guess you could say stealing or copying other people's beliefs. Like, why not? And so, let me explain why I decided to have my business coach Stacey Boehman on.

So, for those of you who don't know her, she is a master certified life coach. She also trained at the Life Coach School, where I trained. And she helps life coaches make money.

And so, I guess most people consider her a business coach. And I've been in her world for almost a year now. And so, I've done two rounds of her mastermind and I just renewed and so I'll be doing a third round. Each round is about six months, in case you were wondering. And I plan to be in her orbit for a while. At least a few years, to learn from her.

And then you might be asking, why do I love learning from her? Or maybe you're not wondering that. But it's because she has not just created an extraordinary amount of money – and we'll talk about where she is in her journey. I mean, she has a multi-million-dollar company and is on track, I believe, this is 2021, to make $10 million in her business while working three days a week. And not even three full days. We're talking like six-hour days. I think she works 12 to six Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and takes about two months of vacations a year.

And so, when I first heard that that was even possible, it kind of broke my brain. And then I had some thoughts and judgmental thoughts about how that's not right, et cetera, and so you might be having similar thoughts as well.

And so, I just love that she's an example of what's possible, literally. An example of a woman who came from really humble beginnings and able to create extraordinary wealth.

And so, I'm not having her on to say that this is what you should do as well, but I just think it's important to see what is possible. Because since I've been in this entrepreneur world, specifically mainly around life coaches or other online businesses, I have literally been surrounded by people making a lot of money and it's normal.

And I know that most of you probably don't have that. And you don't need to be in business to have that experience of what is possible out there for you. And I'm not saying you should want to make a ton of money or millions of dollars.

But I know many of you think it's not possible and that it's not possible to make $500,000 or $1 million or whatever amount of money that you would like to make without working hard, without sacrificing. And so, that's why I have her here, so that you can literally, well, not see, but hear a real-life example of a woman who has created extraordinary wealth without taxing or without overworking, without sacrificing her family life, without sacrificing… just sacrificing.

Because I think a lot of us feel like, “Oh, well I do want more money and I don't really want to work more,” because that's sort of what we've all believed, we've got to work hard and more money. And just even the possibility that it's possible to make millions, multimillions a year and working three days a week.

Now, I'm not saying that this happened overnight for her. And so, I'm just excited to share Stacey with you because I know you'll learn a lot and just be kind of amazed at what she's accomplished, and her story. Because like I said, she comes from very humble beginnings. So, I think that's important because so many of you think you're behind or think it's too late.

And so Stacey's not – I think she's in her mid-30s. And I think it just goes to show you that you really can do whatever you want. If you want to create a lot of money, you can. It's not too late. You're not behind because it's possible. And so, that's why I have her on. I'm so excited for you to listen and I hope you get so many nuggets.

And if you are listening and you are a life coach and you don't know Stacey, you need to check her out. I have basically done her flagship program 2K for 2K, that's for new life coaches, and then I'm in her mastermind called 200K, and then I'm in her $2 million group mastermind. And so, if you're a life coach, you definitely need to check her out. And let's go.

Bonnie: Welcome to the podcast, Stacey.

Stacey: Hi, thanks for having me.

Bonnie: Yeah, so I'm super excited to have you because – and so my listeners might be like, “Why is there a non-physician here on the podcast to talk about money?” You know, my people have heard me talk about my business coach, so that's you, obviously. And I want them to hear how you think about money so that they can try them on and get inspired by your story as well.

Stacey: Okay, great, let's do it.

Bonnie: So, I've already introduced you on the podcast, but obviously a lot of people might not know you, they just know that you're a successful entrepreneur coach right now, but I think it would be really helpful for them to kind of hear that you didn't start out rich.

Stacey: I did not. No. I mean, I use rich and poor – first of all, can I just say, if I use those terms in this podcast, I use them because I have been extraordinarily poor and I feel extraordinarily rich. So, they're terms that I identify with. So, I have a different level of comfort talking about poor people and rich people that I think some people are afraid, like, “Oh you can't say that…” But that's my story. That's where I came from, so that's the terms that I use.

But yeah, I grew up very poor. I grew up in a shotgun house. I graduated from high school living with my dad in a really small trailer on some land. Like, my family never had money. And in fact, I think growing up, it was always like them versus us and those who have money are bad and we are good. And a lot of that comes from my great grandparents, like humble church upbringing of the meek shall inherit the earth sort of belief system.

So yeah, I never had money. I struggled my whole life. And then my siblings actually went on to be pretty successful. My sister is a nurse practitioner. Her husband is in software development. He does big things that I don't know what they are. And my brother works for Charles Schwab. And so, I was always the kind of black sheep of the family, not super successful.

So, before I found coaching, I was a pitch artist. So, I would go around the country and do live demos in retail chains across the country, like ShamWow, knives, all the things. I always joke that I used to sell mops in Walmart.

And I was like the best in the industry, but the best in the industry made about $60,000. And even when I was making $60,000, which I think can be a great income in this country, in the US, I still wasn't managing my money well so I had no IRA, no retirement. I had no savings. I was always living paycheck to paycheck. I had to go through debt management programs twice. I was just always, always overspending above my means.

And you know the story, when I started my business, I had to really do a lot of thought work around money to be able t invest in myself. Like, I think my first investment in myself was $5000. And doing that seemed unbelievable. So unattainable.

I was living in a 600 square foot apartment, barely making rent with a 20-year-old car, beater car driving it around, that seemed so insane to me. And we joke now, like, it's true, I had two spoons. I didn't have the money or the interest to just have the normal basic fundamental things that most humans have. That feels like the two spoons is almost a metaphor for that. I just had none of those things.

And it really took a lot of changing my mind and my thoughts about money to create millions of dollars. So, that's kind of my background.

Bonnie: I know, I love that story. And what do you think was the impetus for you to be like, “I need to do something about this?”

Stacey: To hire a coach?

Bonnie: Well, to work on yourself to change how you think about money and start making money. Like, at some point, were you like, this is enough…

Stacey: So, I think that there was a couple of things. I don't know that I really – that's a great question. I don't know that I ever got into it for the money. I never saw value in money because I never had it. Like, I remember – this is the best example of this. The 2008 financial crisis, I had no idea there was a crisis. Poor people didn't know that there were things happening to rich people at that time. I had no idea.

So, I was in sales and so many other people, I hear their stories that they were crippled around that time being in sales, but I had no concept that there was a problem in the world, so I still sold and made a lot of money.

So, I don't think I got into it for money. I know that might not be the answer you were thinking, but I will say somewhere along the line, I was pitching for seven years, I realized I loved doing it, I was a nomad, I would go all over the country, I was the best at it, but I was really unfulfilled.

And when I say that, I mean literally there would be times where I would be having a $10,000 week and crying in my car because I just didn't want to do it anymore. It was just a really lonely life and I noticed that all of my friends and people around me were getting married, they were buying houses, they had decent cars, they were living what I would say is a society standard normal life and I kept thinking, why don't I have that? Why can't I create it? Like there's something they have that I'm missing. There's something that they know or that they're good at that I can't seem to create for myself, no matter how hard I try, I can't figure out how to save. No matter how hard I try to restrain, I can't seem to get myself out of going into debt.

So there was a feeling like overall everybody else had it figured out and I didn't, and then there was a big piece of not knowing. Like, I was the top of my career. There was nowhere else to go. There was really no more money to make and I knew there was no way I could live that lifestyle and have a family, if I had a relationship to want to have a family. It was like all of those things kind of culminating.

And then, I met someone that said they were a life coach and I was like, “What is that? I don't know what it is but I know that I need it.”

Bonnie: Yeah, well I just want to point out a few things that you said that will be really important to my listeners. That because when doctors, when we finish our training, which can take a decade or more depending on – some residencies, which is the part after the eight years of college and med school, are like seven-plus years, which is insane to me.

Stacey: It's intense.

Bonnie: Yeah, and so they finish residency and all of a sudden, they're making multiple six-figures and they have the life that society says you've made it. You have enough money to buy the house. And they'll be working and usually – it could be right after, but usually after a few years, a lot of physicians, especially female physicians, because they've gotten married, they have kids at this point, they're like, “I have everything I want.” Like they've reached the top of their field, they're making the money, and just said they feel unfulfilled, they feel empty, they're like, “This is not what it's supposed to be like.”

I'm kind of hearing that in what you just said. And then some of them think, “Well, I want to make a change but I can't because of money.” And that's kind of what a lot of my clients tell me. Like it's the money…

Stacey: Yeah, that was my biggest hurdle. It's like the reason that makes it the hardest thing for you to do is the reason you have to do it. I remember when my coach told me that. She's like, “If you haven't been able to figure out how to save money, how to pay all your bills…” like, I had to learn the basic skillset when I literally knew nothing about money.

I had to learn the basic skillset of I have, say, 10 bills and I don't have money for all of them, what I would do is pay the ones that seemed the most important or seemed like the penalty was the highest and the ones that I could just knock out and ignore other ones. But then they would start to stack up.

And to learn the skill of paying all your bills always, my coach made me divvy up how much money I had and start paying all of the bills and just only some of it and take all the penalties, which to me made no sense whatsoever. And I couldn't even understand it. But what it taught me is that you always pay every bill all of the time. And it just started building this muscle. It's like you have to start somewhere.

But yeah, I had no idea how I was going to pay for my coaching. Literally, I sold my furniture, I sold my clothes. I had like $5000 in an IRA that I cashed out, that was to go to coach training. I mean, I worked my little butt off to come up with – I pawned jewelry. I did everything I could to come up with the money to figure it out. I just knew what has been – I was 29. And I'm like, at some point I've got to figure this out. What I've tried so far is not working.

Bonnie: Yeah. And then I also like what you said that you felt like you were the only person who didn't figure it out and maybe you were thinking there was something wrong with you. Because a lot of my clients will say, “I thought I was the only one who didn't understand money.”

Because I think it's like, just because you make money, doesn't mean you actually know what to do with it. Which makes sense. Just because you have it – we get this message during our training, like you're going to make plenty of money, you'll be fine, you know. That's kind of the message that we get, and a lot of us have a lot of student loans, like, “Oh you'll be fine. You'll make enough money to pay it off, it's no problem.”

And then the reality hits like, “Well, I still don't understand what I'm supposed to do.” But everyone seems like they know what they're doing, and so it's this façade of, like, “Well, everyone else seems to know what they're doing so I should be able to figure this out.” And then it just kind of perpetuates.

Stacey: Yeah, and really no one knows what they're doing. That's really what's happening. It's so fascinating. Like if the truth of our brains and our bodies were just written on our forehead, we'd all know. But we're so good at masking and pretending and looking successful that – I mean, people, their minds would be blown if they could actually look and see what people are doing with their money and see their thoughts about their money. No one knows what they're doing. I mean, people do, but…

And what's really fascinating is that even at the multimillion-dollar level, I find myself always so frustrated because there isn't really a playbook for how to be a steward of your money when you have millions and millions of dollars as well.

You talk to 10 different people, there are 10 different answers. And so, I'm really having to manage my mind around there are no rules and I get to make them for what's my idea of the life I want.

Bonnie: Yeah, at one point, did you realize you were – I'm not even sure if capable is the word, but we can use that word – either capable or it was possible that you could make a lot of money? And do you remember what that felt like?

Stacey: What's fascinating is I do think I believed that possibility right away. And I'm not sure where it came from because I think back and it doesn't make any sense that I would believe that I could make millions of dollars as a life coach from where I was. I think it's like maybe just who I was associating myself with.

I remember walking into the Life Coach School and being in a room with all these women that seemed so much classier than me and well put together and they had it figured out and they all had designer purses and Brooke was so well put together. And I remember thanking myself for putting me in a roomful of women like that. So, I think it was by association I started to believe that it could be possible for me…

Bonnie: Because you had examples.

Stacey: Yeah, and my coach was making really good money and always talked to me about money. This is the thing. I think this is what it is. If you start looking for people who are making lots of money and having conversations about money, because no one is having conversations about money in the real world. Your friends, your family, no one's talking about money. And so, I actively, when I launched my business, and even before that, I would say when I was just trying to figure out my own money, I started searching for who can I listen to about money? Who's having a conversation about it that I could be a part of? And I do think that started rubbing off on me.

Bonnie: Yeah, because I asked in my private Facebook group, how much money do you want to make? And obviously, the answers were all over the place. And it's funny because even where I was a few years ago in terms of what I thought was possible with money, I was like, “Oh, it would be nice if I made $500,000 a year as a doctor.” And then, when I switched to life coaching, I was like, “Oh, I guess I could make a million dollars. That's what people seem to be doing.”

So, it's kind of like what you were saying. And when I saw their answers, they ranged from $200,000, some people said a million, but I noticed that their answers would be like, “Well, $500,000 but I don't want to work more.” Or, “$1 million but I don't know how that would happen.” And so, their answers were determined by what they thought was possible. But also like, “I don't know how that would happen.” Because they're also thinking like, how they're making money as a doctor, which is very – we get paid unit-based, basically. If you want to make more money, you have to do more things, see more patients, do more procedures.

And so, I don't know, was that your sort of previous mindset around money, that you had to do more to make more? Because I think that's something a lot of my clients struggle with.

Stacey: Yeah, for sure. It's a similar thing in that when I first started coaching, I was still pitching. And there are only a certain amount of shows you can get in, in a day. And there's a certain percentage of people that you're going to sell, even when you're in an amazing store. So, it wasn't like I had – it was very effort-based.

And I remember having a conversation with my coach and saying, like, I want to make more money but there is no possibility that I can work harder. And even if I could, I don't want to. Like, I felt so much resistance, like I refuse to. Like, I'm not working any more. I'm already exhausted. And I don't have it in me, I don't want to do this, the money is not worth it. I remember having that conversation.

And so, one of the things that we did is we worked on just opening up possibility in my mind that I could make more money. I may not know how I will do it, but I could and it could be easier. So, I remember I developed this statement for myself that I was the possibility of making 78… I don't know what it was $78,000, but $78,000 without the feeling of having worked harder.

And I remember, I worked on that for an entire year. And what was fascinating is I ended up making almost exactly that number that year. I had gone down to part-time pitching, so I was only working every other week. And I signed a couple of life coaching clients.

But also – this is super important to hear – once I started coaching myself, my sales started going up with the exact same effort I was doing in my job. So, the year that I cut and went part-time, I actually made $60,000 that year part time just because I was interacting with people at such a different level and managing my mind at such a high level.

I was able to connect with people more. I sold more. I had more energy at the end of the day. And then I had enough energy to be doing calls before work, after work, and on the weekends. And I know a lot of my students, I coach life coaches to make money, and a lot of them tell me they're working full-time, they're exhausted, they don't have the energy to produce a second line of income. And that all comes from our mind. I'm like, 100% you do, it's just your thoughts that you're having and how you're feeling when you're doing the work you're doing.

And I remember a time when I was doing the work I was doing and couldn't do any more, and then I remember a time when I was working full-time and had coaching clients morning, night, and on weekends, and had more energy then than I had the year before.

Bonnie: Yeah, that's amazing. Because doctors love to work. And not only do they love – maybe they don't love to work, but they have the stamina. Like in residency, they had to pass laws to limit the workweek to 80 hours a week. I don't know if you know about that. That was actually not that long ago. Before, they would just make us work literally two or three days in a row with no sleep. Probably not a good idea to have your doctor with no sleep working.

And so, they cut it to 80 hours which is still kind of insane when you think about an 80-hour workweek. So, we have the stamina and we know we can do it because we had to. We know we could work nights and weekends. At least we're telling ourselves we can still sustain a high level of productivity for long hours, even though you and I know that's not sustainable.

And so, I find a lot of my clients, they're like, “We want to make a change but the only thing I know is to work more.” And so, I just see this cycle repeated. And also, like, I see myself repeating it too, overworking as a doctor and now I'm overworking as a coach because that's kind of what I know.

Stacey: Yeah, so I think it's like a couple of things. So, if I were to say, like, where would you start, for your students based on what I've heard, the first thing I actually think, which is not probably what you're going to expect me to say, is that I think you want to get coached in your brain to get to a place where the amount of time you are working doesn't feel the same as it does now, where you have more energy when you get off. You have more energy while you're working, and it's not taking the same emotional load. I think that's the first step.

And then I actually do think the second step could be to work more, to see what you're – I was just talking to someone else about this. I think in the beginning, we aren't really – because we're so bogged down with our emotional load, we aren't really aware of what we're actually truly capable of producing as humans.

And I think the second step is always to test what we're truly capable of, test what really is our limit by pushing it to the max while also managing our mind and also managing the emotional load to where, again, it doesn't feel like you should be able to do maybe even twice what you're currently doing and feel the same as what you're doing now, if not better.

Like, that's possible when you're – and I don't know, when I say managing your mind, I don't know the way you call it with your students, but if you're actively cleaning out your brain, working through your emotions, that's a step. And then, once you know what you're capable of and you're doing it with an energy that feels good to you, then you can scale back. You can look at, “What can I do in place of that?” Because it's really hard for people to believe that they could – and I don't know if you also teach your students this about creating an extra income stream or having even ideas of it. But when you find yourself capable of more, I think that's when the possibility slips in.

I think for me, when I was pitching and I realized I could make more money in less hours and I was capable of working more hours, when that all came to me, that was the time where I was like, “You know what, I might be able to actually start a business and do this and I can handle this.”

And there was a while where I was working full-time with 10 or 11 hours of coaching on top of that. And I was traveling, so it's like it's not just leaving your house and driving 20 minutes to a hospital. It's leaving your house, driving eight hours to Michigan to work for a week, and eight hours home.

So, I think that's a really important step too, it's being able to push yourself. And I wouldn't even want to say push yourself. Being able to increase your capacity while also increasing your emotional – your capacity to work, your emotional capacity to not feel as exhausted. And then, while you're doing that, you also have to work on the thought, truly the belief that the only way to make more money is to work more. Work more equals money that is a belief system that almost all of society has and it's not true. It's just not. There are too many people who have proven that to not be true.

Bonnie: Yeah, I like what you said because I do hear – and even for myself, first of all I'm a dermatologist, so what that means is we work on average less than most other doctors. But when I was a resident, I worked like most doctors in terms of hours.

And so, I definitely find that a lot of my clients, from what you were saying, it's like maybe they should even keep a time diary of where they're actually spending their time. Because I bet a lot of that time, like you said, is mental load, thinking about what they're not getting done, worrying about things. Because physicians tend to run anxious. We're like type-A perfectionists. We're always worrying about 30 million things. And then if you're a mom on top of that, it's even worse. And so, I really like that advice that you just gave.

Tell me about – so obviously you're on the other side. What I mean by that is now you're making a lot of money, you're having a lot of money. And I've heard you talk about how when you started having a lot more money, that you had to kind of deal with some – it's like your concept of yourself hadn't caught up with the material success and how you had to deal – I think a lot of my clients, including myself, we think once we have the money, then I'll feel secure. But then I remember hearing you say once you had all this money, you were afraid of spending it. You were almost hoarding it.

Stacey: Yeah, and I think it's like, I was doing two things. I was spending a lot of it and hoarding a lot of it, if that makes any sense whatsoever. It was like I was going back and forth. I was going to both extremes from the same thought of I don't know how to be responsible for this. It's not enough. I'm not a great steward of my money.

I had so many thoughts. I actually coached with Kara Loewentheil on this when we were at one of our mastermind meetings. And we had this conversation about how there were times when I had no money and I felt completely sufficient and I felt like I have everything I need, I don't need any more. I felt really happy.

And then there were times I had lots of money and felt terrified and that it's all going to go away and I'm going to lose it all, end up living in a box, felt very tight, very anxious, very lacking around it. So, it just proves that the money never creates our feelings ever.

And one of the things that was most powerful for me is really understanding that if – like we had talked about, there was a time where I was like, “If I just had $100,000 in my bank account, I will feel safe and secure.” And then it was $300,000. And then it was $500,000. And then it was a million. And now I catch my brain going to millions and the marker will just keep getting moved if you don't deal with the thought that creates it, if you don't' deal with how you engage with your money, it will just keep compounding.

I always say, whatever problem you have now, if you have more money, it's just going to go times two. So, for whatever your clients are experiencing right now or your audience, I would have them think about, what do they think is the top three problems they have around money. And then, this will be a little bit mind-tricky, but imagine that they had 10 times the money but also 10 times the same three problems. And to spend more time imagining that they will have 10 times the three problems.

Now, not to scare you from money, but to show you that if you don't fix it now, more money won't fix it. You can be at a place where you have lots of money and feel really abundant and really sufficient as well. Those are options as well. But whatever you're doing now in your mind with money, having more of it isn't going to change that experience with your money. That's what I'm trying to say.

Bonnie: Oh yeah. And I think even though a lot of us know logically that's true, we're like, “But yeah, things are better…” And you tell us this in our business coaching, like whatever problem you have in your business now, once your business makes more money, it's just going to magnify. It's going to get magnified. I forget who said this, maybe it was Tony Robbins. Money just…

Stacey: Enhances who you already are?

Bonnie: Yeah, it just magnifies more of who you are. So yeah, the scarcity just gets actually worse with more money because then you're so afraid of losing it is probably what happens.

Stacey: Yeah, imagine if, like I'll give a specific example. Imagine if you, from the thought that feels negative in your body, that creates anxiety from you, whatever that thought is, from a place of anxiety, imagine if you were extraordinarily meticulous with budgeting and going through every single dollar and having to know exactly where it went and making sure that every purchase on your credit card to the cent was correct and you were always looking at receipts and matching it with your statement, really spending time managing it in an attempt to have so much control that you can feel safe.

So, imagine if that's what was happening. But now, you have $10 million and your purchases are all much bigger, there's more purchases, you're still going to do that exact same behavior with that money except it's going to feel like the stakes are so much higher and they're bigger amounts of money. Like, that's why you have…

Bonnie: More zeroes…

Stacey: There's more zeroes, right. So, that's what I mean by – having lots of money is amazing. I think everybody should have a goal to have more money if they want to. I am a big proponent, I love spending money, I love having money, I love all the things and the freedom that comes with having money and the options that come with having money.

But what I just want to caution everyone is, like, I as well thought that money would be the solution and it took a very painful experience of having lots of money over and over and over and realizing that my mindset hadn't changed with it, and that if I didn't change it, my experience would always be the same no matter how much money I have. It's like you're on a fancy yacht or a private plane but you're miserable, instead of in the hospital.

Bonnie: We all know those stories. And maybe it's even ourselves, where looking at the things you have in your life, like, okay, I have all the things that other people would be – not to say envious of, but no one would be like, “What do you mean, you don't have the things that you need?”

But then, they find themselves feeling miserable, empty, unfulfilled inside. And so, I know a lot of my clients are in that space where they're seeing this mismatch between their actual emotional experience of the world and what they actually have, especially as physicians. Because being a physician is like, you should be fine. You have the respect of society and all that kind of stuff.

And so, what do you think – I'm curious, how do you think you feel now about money? Like when you think about the money that you do have and what are your thoughts now and how are they different? Or do you feel like you even think about money the way you did before?

Stacey: I think about money all the time. I don't think about it the same as I did before. But I'm a big proponent. I always know how much money we have in our accounts. I always know what we budget every single month in my business with my CFO. I always know what my year-to-date numbers are. I always know what my monthly numbers are. I know how much money we're spending in our business, what it takes to run our business at any given time, what our payroll is.

I know my numbers. I actually think that's probably the biggest difference in my experience now of my money. I used to hide from it and avoid it, and now I'm very intimate with it

And not from a place of trying to over-control it and trying to gain a bunch of control to feel safe, but because I have a really good relationship with it. It's like I also know at any given time on my fiancé's schedule and what's going on with him and what he's worried about and what he's excited about. Like I have that intimate relationship with him. The same I have an intimate relationship with my money that's wide-awake, very truthful, and not really rooted in trying to control it. It just is what it is, here it is.

Bonnie: Yeah, so I used to be someone who I was like, “The money will figure itself out.” This was when I was a resident. And so, making around $45,000 a year, which is still a plenty of money to live in the United States. But it's funny because a lot of doctors associate residence as like basically making no money. But the average resident's salary is actually around $50,000 in the US right now. So, that's one thing…

Stacey: That's the first thing you have to think about. When you say, “I am making no money,” how does that feel? It feels terrible. And people will argue with me – this happens even in coaching too – it's never enough. They say, “If I could just sign my first client.” And then they sign their first client and they're like, “But I only have one client. I've got to have at least five.” And they sign five and they're like, “It's not like I'm full-time. I'm only doing this much per month.” And then they get full-time and they're like, “Well I'm not making six figures.” And then they get to six figures and they're like, “Well, but I don't have this much profit.” And then they get that much profit and they're like, “Well, but I'm not making 500K…”

It's constant if you don't catch it. You have to be really careful. The way that you talk about money has to come – like it has to start where you are now with what you have now. Like, if I can't stress anything on this podcast, it's truly it will not change your beliefs about money, your thought about it, your observation of it. Let's say that, your observation of your money will not change if you get more. You'll just slide the marker.

Bonnie: Right, more zeroes will just appear magically. I had a client the other day who was – and I'm sort of quoting her, but she said something like, “I only make $140,000.” That's how she said it.

Stacey: Yeah, it feels terrible. That's like the worst, right? I always think of, how does your money feel when you talk about it that way? Like, it's really hard to do good things with money, like if you treated your money like a person, if you thought of your money like a person, a person you were in a relationship with. Would that person want to be in a relationship with you? Would that person want to go out of their way to do nice things for you? Would that person be speaking nicely of you?

Like, I know it's kind of crazy to ask a physician to think about money being a person, but seriously, that activity was so powerful for me when I was growing my relationship with money, is if it were a person, would I be okay with speaking about it this way? Would I want this type of relationship with it? What would that person's experience of me be?

Bonnie: Yeah, I have this – inside my program I talk about the different relationship types. And basically, they're all dysfunctional, you know. Like you just said earlier how before you became a great steward of your money, that you just ignored it and didn't look at it. And so, we talk about that.

And it's basically like having – I think of it as a romantic partner, or even a kid. Can you imagine just ignoring them all the time or hiding because you're scared of what's going to happen?

Stacey: Or overworking them because you think they're not enough.

Bonnie: Exactly, you're not enough, I'll pay attention to you once you're a million dollars. And then we'll start talking. Okay, so can you share with us, what are your current money beliefs that you feel like are really serving you right now? And it might be so automatic for you that…

Stacey: Yeah, it is. I need to think about it. That's a good question for me to – that's something even to explore for my audience. I think one of them is there will always be more. So, that really allows me to – for me, this is so tricky too because we have a lot of beliefs about what we should be doing with money and what's responsible with money.

And I talk with Kara about this all the time because we get so geeky about society's – especially with women – society's belief about how you should be with money. One of my priorities with my money is to have experiences.

I do want to grow my wealth. We have a really amazing plan to grow our portfolio to $600 million over the next 30 years, which seems so insane, but also, it's what we're doing. And so, I do take actions to always invest in my business and invest in my future. But I love to spend money and have experiences. And that feels really important to me.

So, one of the thoughts that I have is that there will always be more money. So, I never tell myself I can't have an experience I really want. Like the wedding of my dreams, the honeymoon of my dreams. I'm very interested in using my money to live the life that I want to live right now, not five years from now, 10 years from now. Like, I know a lot of people who they're thinking, “I'm going to enjoy my money when I'm retired.” And I don't want to wait until the end of my life to enjoy my money.

So, I feel like that's probably the number one thought that I have about it, that it's here to be the steward of my life experience. It's here to be the steward of my highest self-expression. And for me, that' experiences. That's travel. That's bringing my friends with me on a private flight. That's doing extravagant, extraordinary things, like going to Bora Bora, seeing places I've never seen before. To me, that's probably the number one I have and I think it allows for a lot of flow of money. It goes in and it comes out.

I also will say that one of my favorite thoughts this year with the economy and with coronavirus has been I love being a contributor of the economy. Every time I spend money, I think about who that money is going to and how that money is supporting jobs and how that money is supporting other people and their work and their passions, from the purse maker at Louis Vuitton, like there's someone that's designing that purse, that's putting that purse together probably by hand. There's someone that's in the sales department. There's someone who's in a store that's super happy.

I was just in Vegas shopping and they were saying how happy they wee to be open. So, that's a favorite thought of mine. A lot of people choose to beat themselves up about spending money and I really loved having the thought, like, Neil and I are contributing to the economy and I love that we're able to do that. And so, that would always bring be back to the gratitude of what we have.

Bonnie: Yeah, so I want to just pause for a second because you said earlier you were building your portfolio to $600 million, just because I'm pretty sure some of my listeners will just be like, “What? Was there two extra zeroes?” Because I'll tell you, a lot of my clients, and even I before I came to money mindset coaching, was I really thought $5 million was going to be amazing.

When I say amazing, like, that was a really high goal. And people would even – and you're saying women, we're judged a lot by how we spend money or even by our money goals. And to even say $5 million, people would say, why do you need that much? You don't need that, et cetera. And so just hearing that $600 million, I'm sure some people are like, wait what…

Stacey: Listen, I was like, “Wait, what?” as well when I sat down with our financial person. But based on the rate of what we are contributing, which is so insane, when I think about how much we're contributing, it's like every year we're contributing what most people would spend an entire lifetime trying to accumulate, which doesn't escape me, the gratitude and the awe of that, especially coming from someone who grew up in a shotgun house in Indiana and didn't go to an Ivy League college.

So yeah, it was crazy for us to hear that. And what I loved also is that he was like, “Based on this amount, if you spend all the rest of your money, you're still going to have this money.”

And one of the things that he said to me that was really profound, because I also don't know what I would do with $600 million, but one of the things he said to me is, “I hope you understand what's happening here and you should probably start to think about your philanthropic desires.” And that really hit me, of that money isn't just for me. It's for the whole world. It's for everybody and it's for – we've changed the generational money in our family. Our kids will have a completely different experience of life.

I grew up – Neil and I laugh about this all the time. The living example of what life was like for me. I grew up, my parents would buy for dinner, we'd have cream-chipped beef, and it was like the dollar frozen bags that you would microwave and tear up white pieces of bread and pour it on top, and that was dinner. And now I'm building a $600 million portfolio, I'm like, what is happening in this world that that's possible? It just seems so crazy.

So, I think it's crazy too and I don't spend a lot of time thinking about what I'm going to do with it or anything. I just think it's such an exciting possibility.

Bonnie: Yeah, and so I'm hoping for everyone listening right now, besides being shocked by those numbers – I'm sure most of them were shocked – but just even considering that it's possible to build a lot of wealth and that they're capable of it. Because we're just in this box, this is how much we make and if we work this much for X amount of years and if we're lucky we'll get to five million. And not to say five million is not a lot of money and plenty of money for someone to live on…

Stacey: It is so much money. Like, I would be so extraordinarily grateful if all I made for the rest of my life was $5 million. That's more money than I thought was possible for me. I think that's a big thing for everybody to hear is, there is no amount of money that is like – I guess I don't know how I want to say it. But $5 million isn't less than $600 million, right? You have to decide what you want. And trust me when I say there was never a point, up until about a year ago, when I would say I want $600 million.

It was very gradual. I remember when $100,000 was life-changing. It was everything. Like, I watch my coaches, my students be so ungrateful for $100,000 and so entitled to more. And it blows my mind. And I think it is the, like, I'm so grateful I had the life I had and the story of being so poor because I can catch that for them and be like, “What are you talking about? That $100,000 is a freaking miracle. It's a miracle.” And I think that's how I've always thought about it. So, $600 million is a little crazy, but…

Bonnie: Yeah, and I just love what you said. It sounds like – the last thing I wanted to talk about was really enjoying and acknowledging what you have. It's like we live in this perpetual not-enough culture and so you were talking about your coaches who make 100 grand, they're like, “It's not enough,” and then doctors making $200,000 to $500,000 – I don't think they're consciously thinking it's not enough money, but they've built up this life where it is not enough money.

Because between the mortgage, the private schools, the vacations they take, the cars they'll buy, and all of a sudden it is not enough because they've raised their lifestyle so high. And so, do you have any tips for how to start really appreciating what you have now, when you're in that not-enough mentality?

Stacey: Yeah, I mean, I think that's what you have to do, is you have to start appreciating it. Even if you're overspending. I have lots of thoughts that are different than other people about debt as well. I'm not afraid of debt. I don't have any shame around it. I don't think it's bad. I literally think at its most basic thing, it's borrowing money for use now, or buying money for use now.

So, you can say maybe someone is buying money higher than their lifestyle. But just make sure, if you're doing that, you're enjoying the lifestyle. Like, you can be spending more than you have, but enjoy it.

Where the problem comes in, if you're spending more than you have and you're not enjoying it because that wasn't actually intentional and is not something you're consciously choosing and desiring and it feels good and it's not coming from a good place, then that's where you're in trouble because you have the expanded lifestyle but then you're not even enjoying living it. And then you have debt, lack of money, and you're not enjoying the expansive lifestyle. Do you know what I'm saying?

Make it an intentional choice either way. You can decide. I coached someone when I was still one on one coaching who had a lot of debt and I went through, what was the debt for? And it was for medical bills for her kids and it was for vacations and it was for private school. And I was like, yeah, do you still want all those things? And she's like yeah. And I'm like, okay then why are you mad at the debt? Enjoy it. Love it. Isn't it amazing that we have a system of money now where you can buy money and you can have what you don't have now?

So, it's like the first thing I think you have to do, even if you're overspending and going beyond your means is you have to enjoy what you're spending the money on. And I think from that place, from the enjoyment, you may even decide you don't need all of that and you may want to scale back by choice. But it's one of those things where, if they stopped doing the things that they don't fic their mind first and how they're thinking about their money, they stop spending the money, they're still going to have the exact same experience. So, either way, you have to change the experience first.

Bonnie: Yeah, and that's a great way for us to close because a lot of my clients are in such a rush to pay off debt, and most of it is student loans…

Stacey: Yeah, I would not rush for that…

Bonnie: That allowed them to become a physician. It's like, I love that question you asked your client, do you still want to be a doctor? And usually it's a yes. Sometimes it's a no, but usually it's a less. And, like, why is it a problem all of a sudden when it was what allowed you to become the doctor? But anyway.

Stacey: Yeah, you've got to love the debt. It's fine. When I did a debt management program, the best thing that ever happened to me is they said – and it was for like $12,000, so what they do is they consolidate all your credit cards and then they're like, “You owe $300 a month. We take the payment from you, we pay all the people, so all you have to be responsible for is that $300 a month.”

And when I got to stop thinking about my debt – and they were like, “You can't pay it off faster.” They don't allow you to do that. So, even if you have more money, you can only pay the $300. And that was freeing. I just made my $300 payment and I never thought about my debt again. And then I got to go out and enjoy my life and live it. And I learned that I could have debt and it could just be there and I could not be thinking about it, I could not be stressing about it and just really settle into, “It's okay that it's there.” Just even that little nugget could really change someone's life.

Bonnie: Yeah, totally. Alright, any last tip or anything that you felt like you wanted to say but didn't have the chance to say?

Stacey: Good question. I mean, this is, to me, at the core of the way that I think about money that may be helpful for everyone is I truly believe we get – and this is going to sound really cliché, but I believe it to all of my core. We genuinely get one life experience. We have to learn to stop having it be completely mandated and our entire experience being ran by money and the feelings of not having enough of it.

Like, you could spend your entire lifetime having that experience with money and it would be the first thing I'd change because it's the number one thing that preoccupies every human's mind. It's the number one thing I would work on because we get one life, that's it, just one. It's so precious and important and it's not worth – I don't think there's any amount of money worth not having a great life experience that comes with it.

Bonnie: Yeah, well thank you so much for being here and sharing all of your amazing money stories and money beliefs.

Stacey: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Hey, if you enjoyed this episode and don't want to miss out on new episodes, please hit the subscribe button on your favorite podcast app. See you next week.

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The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | Guaranteeing a Return on Your Investments

61: Guaranteeing a Return on Your Investments

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The Wealthy Mom MD Pocast with Dr. Bonnie Koo | Guaranteeing a Return on Your InvestmentsOver the course of my life, the way I look at the money I spend has changed. When it comes to buying something, whether that is a vacation, a coaching course, or even a meal, I don't look at the amount it's going to cost me, but I consider what I'm getting in return.

I'm putting this out there for you to consider because since I started thinking about all of my purchases in this way, it has led to more intentional and easier spending decisions. And while the return isn't always easy to calculate, like having an amazing time with someone you love, I think it's important that we all start looking at the money we spend through this lens.

Join me on the podcast this week as I discuss why everything you spend money on has a potential return on investment. I'm sharing the experiences I like to spend my cash on and how they have paid me back in their own way, and the personal and professional development side of my spending, how this spending pays me back every day, and how my clients are doing the same.

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

  • Why I choose to look at everything I purchase as having some kind of return.
  • Where in my personal life I have spent big on an experience and gotten great value in return.
  • The non-financial returns that motivate me to invest in and go through coaching.
  • How this method of investment has worked in my business.
  • The financial and non-financial returns that are available in my program Money for Women Physicians.

Listen to the Full Episode:

Featured on the Show:


Read the transcript Expand

Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level your money and your life. I'm your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.

Welcome everyone. So, this podcast is coming out the first week of June. And so, in case you didn't know, June is like my favorite month of the year. And for great reasons because summer starts and summer is amazing. I grew up in the Northeast, so summer as kind of – obviously it's the hot time of the year.

And when I was growing up, I basically spent most of my summers swimming in a pool. And my birthday is also in June. And school was out by mid or end of June. So, it was just an amazing time of the year for me. So, that said, let's dive into today's episode.

So, I realized the other day – actually a while ago – that when I look at the price of things, experiences, whatever, you know, buying something on Amazon, I look at that number differently than many other people. And I didn't always think this way about the numbers I saw.

But this shift in how I look at the price of things really helps me make decisions about spending so much easier and with much more intentionality. So, I want to put this out there to noodle on.

What if the price of whatever you're thinking about buying, instead of seeing it as the amount of money you're spending, meaning the amount of money that's going to leave your account or go on your credit card and you're going to have to pay later, or I guess simply the face value of the price, instead you look at it like this, “What am I getting in return?”

I tend to look at the price as an investment where I'm getting some kind of return. Now, I'm not necessarily talking about getting money back as a return on a traditional investment, like investing in the stock market or real estate. But sometimes, it is a financial return.

Now, I think we naturally do this for things we love to spend money on. We probably don't even consciously think about it. For those of us who love to spend on experiences like travel or even food as an experience, let me pick food because I love spending money on food and expensive restaurants.

Now, if you follow me on Instagram – and if you're no why aren't you? I'm @wealthymommd – you know that I love to post pictures of food on my Instagram stories. Lately it's mostly things that I cook. I've always loved to cook. I'm just cooking a lot more because we're not really going out to eat. Although we're starting to go out to eat a lot more.

And pre-pandemic, I would post pictures of the restaurants I would go to. And if I just looked at the face value of what I spend on food, I might have a heart attack.

For example, one of the first birthdays I celebrated with Matt was, I think, five years ago. And I took him to a restaurant in New York City – we were living in Brooklyn at the time – Sushi Nakazawa. And the final bill was – I actually don't remember, but it was close to $1000. Like, I'm pretty sure it was maybe in the $700 or $800, but it was closer to $1000 than $500.

And I can already see the shock on your face, unless you're a foodie sushi person who gets my jam and who knows what this restaurant is. At face value, you would see that what we got was, “Okay, they got some great sushi and they got lots of sake and wine.” But to me and Matt, we got an amazing experience.

So, a little history. We had watched this documentary – or at least I have. I don't know if Matt watched it – called Jiro Dreams of Sushi. I think it's on Netflix. And so, it's a documentary about this very famous sushi chef. He has a tiny restaurant. I think it's in a subway in Tokyo, and basically talking about his mastery of sushi.

And so, it's about him, but we also see some of his students and see how his students learn under him. And one of his students was someone named Nakazawa, his last name anyway.

And after that documentary, after talking with some friends, I learned that he had a restaurant in New York City. And Matt and I actually love sushi. We love the non-real sushi, like the rolls and stuff, but we also love real sushi, where we go to a sushi restaurant where they don't sell rolls and it's basically omakase, where the chef basically picks the fish for you.

I actually love that in general because that's like one less thing to think about. I just love being able to show up and someone just decides what I'm going to eat.

And so, at this place, Sushi Nakazawa, they have a sushi bar and they have regular tables. But of course, I wanted to sit at the bar to see Chef Nakazawa in his element, because I'd read that's – he's not always at the restaurant. But if you're lucky, then you want to definitely sit at the bar.

So, obviously, that's a much harder reservation to come by because there's like 10 or 12 seats around the bar. So, that's what we did. And he was there. we got super lucky. And he was super kind, generous, he was so funny, and he let us take pictures with him and everything.

So, the return we got was an amazing experience, it was filled with joy, delight, and the pleasure of really good food. And it was the whole thing; the food, the ambiance, the celebrity chef, all the things.

And we still talk about that night to this day, so it's also a really fun memory for us. And so, that's what I mean by yeah, there's the face value of what I spent, or what we spent on that food, that restaurant. But to me, the return was well worth what I paid for.

Now, what's great about this example is some of you might be listening thinking like, “Wow, that sounds amazing and I would love to do that,” or maybe you already do this kind of thing. And some of you are going to be like, “I would never spend that kind of money in a restaurant,” because it's just not your thing and you don't really derive a lot of pleasure or joy from it. And that's great. I think this is what I mean by you get to decide how you want to spend your money and decide what that return is for you. So, if the return is not going to be what I described, then yeah it's not for you.

So, another example for me is what I've spent on coaching and personal development, whether it's for me, meaning my personal life, or for my business. Although I kind of see them as one and the same. But let's just, for the purposes of this podcast episode, let's talk about them separately because I think the business stuff is easier for people to wrap their heads around.

So, for my business, like I said, I think it's easier for our minds to get onboard with spending money on a business. It's really similar to our medical school training, how much it costs to become a doctor. I think for me, my medical school training, when it was all said and done, was something around $100,000, which might not sound a lot. I graduated in 2009. I did go to a private medical school.

I also got a half-tuition grant every year, and so that obviously helped. I think the tuition at the time was $40,000, and so $20,000 that was basically given to me in the form of a grant or scholarship. I don't exactly recall the terminology.

So, basically, we spent, we invested 100K, 200K, you know, it's close to a quarter of a million dollars these days. And what is the return of that spending, that investment?

And so yeah, on one hand you could say, “Oh, well we become a physician and we get to make a certain amount of money.” And yes that is true. And obviously, there is a range in income. So, for me, I became a dermatologist and the salary range for an employed dermatologist is between, I would say, 200 on the lower end and upwards of 500 – we're talking about general dermatology. If you're a Mohs surgeon, that could be much higher. If I was a practice owner, I could make a million and more, right?

And so, I think a lot of us, this is what I see and I'm going to digress here a little bit because y'all know that I love talking about student loans and debt. Because I think most of us think about the debt in terms of money we owe, instead of looking at it as the money we paid, we spent to become a physician. Which has a monetary return, but there's so much more.

Most of us didn't go into medicine because we saw the financial return of becoming one. We knew there was going to be, don't get me wrong. We knew doctors made – it's so funny because I actually don't think I really understand what money doctors made when I applied. I knew they were going to make at least 100K I guess, but I don't think I ever knew what the salary ranges were.

Anyway, so back to the non-financial return of being a doctor, like I just remember my reasons. I wanted to become a doctor because I loved science, I loved learning, understanding how the human body worked. That was intellectually very stimulating. And I just loved that return – and I'm calling it a return – of helping people. I mean, that is the best return on earth. Like, that feeling of knowing that you truly helped someone and it made a difference.

And so, I think that's why many of us became physicians. We wanted that return of becoming a physician and all the respect and all the honor that comes with becoming a physician and the financial return, right?

And I also think about the process, the journey of me becoming a physician, right? There's a reason why it took a decade, basically. I remember being like that medical student, interviewing a patient and writing a note. And I don't know about you, but I remember being really stressed out about, “Oh my god, there are so many questions to ask. How am I going to remember what questions to ask? Oh my god, I've got to go through this order. I've got to do the review of systems,” and then being able to synthesize all of that information.

And this is when I was writing down everything frantically on a piece of paper and then, like, taking the time to put it all together to present to the attending for rounds. Like, I just remember – maybe I wasn't super stressed out, but I just remember all the work it took because it wasn't automatic. And seeing patients as an attending, I don't even have to think about it.

And when I really think about that transition, I really think how amazing it is that I can do that now. I can go into a room. I know exactly what to ask. I'm not, like, thinking, “I need to ask all these questions in this order,” because I've already mastered that.

And so, I think what I'm trying to say is mastering that process, being a doctor who is fully trained and being able to do that, that's part of the return, having the confidence to do that. And so, in my business, I find this to be very similar.

So, I do invest in my business. I invest in business coaches. I invest in business masterminds. And ostensibly it's to make more money in my business because, by definition, a business makes money. Otherwise it's a hobby or a nonprofit, and those are all fine too. But I chose to have a business.

So, yeah, it makes sense, you want to invest money so you can learn how to make more money inside your business. And that alone would be worth the money I spend. If I spend $25,000 on a mastermind to make $200,000, most people would agree, yeah, that's worth it.

What if I told you that the money isn't even the best return I actually get from these types of investments? Yeah, listen, making money is fun. Putting in money in the form of an investment for coaching or a mastermind and seeing the output be multiples of that amount is super fun.

The way I think about it is this. The money I make, it's like the icing on the cake. It's the byproduct of me investing and growing my mind. And some of you might be a little confused because I think when I talk about having business coaches or a mastermind or whatever, I think many people think what I'm learning is strategy, like do this and you'll make money.

For example, one of the things you learn in entrepreneurship or online biz is you need to have an email list because you don't own your social media followers, so you need to figure out a way to grow your email list and these are the best practices to do that. So yeah, those are important to learn for sure.

And what I have found is that starting, creating, and running a business is an amazing vehicle for personal growth and transformation and to make a huge difference in the community, the world, depending on who you serve. I feel like creating this business has just amplified my ability to help more people besides patients.

Alright, I'm digressing a bit here. Let me talk about the nonbusiness things that I also invest in with my personal life, because that is not really a financial return. And so, I also invest in other areas besides business.

My overall life, for example, feeling great about my body, being able to look in the mirror and not think I look old or fat or whatever, parenting, my relationship with Matt, because why not? And what I mean by that is, I know what is possible in all of these areas of my life. Meaning I know that it's within grasp, it's something I can have, to have an extraordinary relationship with my family, to experience myself as a parent, to feel great about how I look. Not relying on how my clothes fit or the number one the scale in order to feel good about myself.

So, why wouldn't I want that? Why wouldn't I be willing to pay for that? At the end of the day, what I've learned is what these tools give me is to truly accept me as is. And not needing or wanting to fix anything because there isn't anything to fix. And I make much better decisions from that place versus making decisions from an, “I need to lose weight because I'm fat,” place.

I'm actually going to do a whole episode on this topic about how we make decision, like why, and questioning why we're making that decision and really diving deep into where we are making decisions from because it's really important to understand that.

And I'm going to use debt as an example because I just find many of my clients, they want to pay off debt because, well, from the premise that debt is bad. And so, it makes sense that they want to pay off debt. So, anyway, wait for that episode to come out. It will come out in a few weeks.

But back to the return. So, the return I get from investing in those areas of my life, honestly, they're priceless. Honestly, I can't put a number one the experience of love with my loved ones and to truly be in their presence.

Now, just in case it's not clear, my life is not 100% roses and unicorns. No one's life is. It just looks like that on social media, but I've learned to stop resisting and arguing with what is, AKA the reality.

I think it was Martha Beck who said that, “When you argue with reality, you only lose 100% of the time.” But how many of us still insist on arguing with what is? Think about that for a second.

So, I hope you start looking at the price of things differently now that you've listened to this episode and see what comes up for you. Ask yourself, “What return am I going to get?” And it doesn't have to be a financial return. It could just be, “This is going to save me time. This is going to create an amazing experience for me and my family.” And you get to decide what that's worth to you, right?

And so, if you've been a long-time listener or follower of me and you've been looking at Money for Women Physicians and when you see the price of $2500, ask yourself, are you looking at the price as the money you're going to spend on it, like parting with it?

I really want you to consider that it's actually not about spending or losing $2500. I want you to ask yourself, “What is the return on me spending $2500 on Money for Women Physicians?”

And I'll tell you what that return is because hundreds of women physicians have now gone through this program. The return is you having the money you want. It's you having the money you want and working less so you can enjoy life. What is that worth to you?

And I also want to, like, underline have the money you want, because there really is no limit to the amount of money you can have. It's the return of feeling confident about where you are in life in regards to your money, feeling at peace, feeling secure, and knowing that you're in control of your life and your money.

So, what does this actually look like? Because every client's return is different. So, I have clients who go part-time pretty immediately with no change in their lifestyle. I have clients who start businesses and they didn't even know they wanted to start a business when they started my program. I have clients who end up falling back in love with their jobs and medicine. I have clients who have a lot more free time. The start investing in real estate, the stock market.

And yes, of course my clients make and have more money. Of course they do. But as I said earlier, that really is the byproduct of really figuring out a bunch of other things.

So, if you've been following for a while and you haven't joined and you're a women physician, I really invite you to consider what your return will be. Then I invite you to take action because it's making decisions and taking action that move you forward in life.

It's not a $2500 decision, remember. It's a potentially priceless decision with infinite returns in terms of money and your experience of yourself and your life. I'll talk to you next week.

Hey, if you're ready to create wealth, I want to invite you to join my program Money for Women Physicians. You'll join a community of likeminded women physicians who are committed to creating wealth. Just head over to wealthymommd.com/money to learn more.

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