Podcast
123: Hypnotherapy: The Tool for Tapping into Your Subconscious with Dr. Elaine Goldhammer
Do you ever feel like no matter how hard you get coached or coach yourself, the thoughts that are holding you back aren’t budging? If you’re suffering, not living the life you want, but can’t seem to figure out why or how to close the gap between where you are now and where you want to be, this episode is for you.
My guest on the show this week is my private client, Dr. Elaine Goldhammer. Dr. Elaine is a hospitalist and life coach, but she’s not just any coach. She’s also a hypnotherapist, and this is the perfect opportunity for both me and you to learn exactly what hypnotherapy is and why it can be so transformational, especially if you have an inkling that you might need a different modality for tapping into your emotional life.
Listen in this week as I quiz Dr. Elaine Goldhammer on all things hypnotherapy. There are so many tools and modalities that can help us evolve into the next version of ourselves, and in this episode, you’ll discover what hypnotherapy looks like in practice, why it can be so complementary to life coaching, and how it’s a turbo booster for tapping into your subconscious.
Learn more about Live Wealthy, an exclusive coaching program designed for successful women who want to be confident... and be rich.
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
- The difference between conscious and subconscious thoughts.
- Why our thoughts become well-grooved patterns in our brains.
- How hypnotherapy works in partnership with thought work to break underlying patterns we aren’t aware of.
- The ways Dr. Elaine uses hypnotherapy to help her clients.
- What’s missing in the thought work realm that hypnosis addresses.
- Dr. Elaine’s insights on why hypnosis can be so transformative.
- What drew Dr. Elaine to hypnotherapy and life coaching.
- How to identify if you might benefit from hypnotherapy.
- What hypnotherapy looks like in practice.
Listen to the Full Episode:
Featured on the Show:
- Follow me on Instagram
- Dr. Elaine Goldhammer: Website | Instagram | Facebook
- Marissa Peer
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For all other inquiries please click here.
122: Lessons from Brooke Castillo: Who Do You Want to Be?
I recently attended a retreat with Brooke Castillo, the founder of The Life Coach School, where I certified as a coach. I’ve mentioned on the show that I was planning on doing a review of the most important points I gleaned from this retreat, so that’s what this episode is all about.
I try to do this with every powerful event that I attend, so I can pass on the pearls of wisdom to you, and trust me when I say this retreat was packed with goodness. Brooke is unapologetically herself, she unapologetically loves money, and I’m sharing the profound impact of being in this energy and unpacking old thought patterns that no longer serve me.
Tune in this week to discover everything I learned from a recent retreat with Brooke Castillo. I’m sharing how to let go of other people’s opinions, allow them to be wrong, and how to decide on who you really want to be, the relationships you want to have, and the impact you want to make on the world.
Learn more about Live Wealthy where you'll learn how to master your money mindset and create wealth on your terms.
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
- Why you’re always allowed to believe whatever you want about money.
- One profound question I’ve been asking my clients to help them get clear on what they want for their lives.
- Why we always have the opportunity to live into an intentional future.
- How so many of us default to our past thinking instead of living into our future.
- What it means to be yourself, unapologetically, and how to allow people to be wrong about you.
Listen to the Full Episode:
Featured on the Show:
- Follow me on Instagram
- Peter Kim’s Financial Freedom Through Real Estate Conference 2022
- The Harvard Happiness Study
- Brooke Castillo
For media or speaking inquiries please click here.
For all other inquiries please click here.
121: Failure: The Path to True Wealth
True wealth is about so much more than just money. It’s something you can create and experience in all areas of your life, from living authentically to feeling more confident in your day-to-day. And in my work, I often see one huge obstacle that is getting in the way on your path to wealth: failure.
The truth is that the more fails we accumulate throughout our lives, the closer we are to achieving what we really want. But the sad reality is that we’re taught the opposite. We’re told we should fear and avoid failure at all costs, and I’m challenging this notion on this week’s podcast.
Join me this week to discover why I believe we need to erase the word failure from our vocabulary. I’m sharing some personal failures I’ve experienced throughout my life, how I’ve shifted my perspective on them, and how you too can start transforming how you experience your failures.
Learn more about Money for Women where you'll learn how to master your money mindset and create wealth on your terms.
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
- How I define failure.
- Some of the personal failures that I’ve experienced throughout my life.
- Why we have to shift the narrative around experiencing failure.
- How I’ve transformed how I now approach my failures.
Listen to the Full Episode:
Featured on the Show:
- Learn more about Money for Women where you'll learn how to master your money mindset and create wealth on your terms.
- Follow me on Instagram
- Defining Wealth for Women: Peace, Purpose, and Plenty of Cash by Bonnie Koo, MD
- Brooke Castillo
Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it, and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level your money and your life. I’m your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.
Hello, everyone. So this episode will be coming out, I believe, the first week of August. I don't know about you, but part of me is like where did the summer go? It's almost over.
So I want to mention two things that are coming soon and I'm super, super excited. So the first thing is around September, starting early or mid we haven't fully decided yet, I'm going to be doing a series of podcast episodes on different topics. When I say different topics, not focused on money. And let me explain why, and this is a good segue into the second thing I wanted to talk about. I probably should have reversed it, but whatever.
I may have mentioned before that I'm evolving, what I want to coach on and teach is evolving, and that's always going to be the case. If you're someone that is committed and loves to grow and evolve, it's just a normal part of that, right? That's why it's called grow and evolve. And this has been percolating for some time and I know I've spoken about it a few times as well.
It was kind of the impetus for me creating the Live Wealthy Retreat this October. At the time of this recording I think there's one spot left, so I would love to have you. And I'm going to explain in a little bit, actually now, why this is different than all the other things that I do, mainly in my program Money For Women. And why you should attend besides the fact that it's at the Four Seasons in beautiful Hawaii, all inclusive, amazing stuff.
That said, what's changing and what's going to be changing and what you're going to listen as time goes on is less focus on money. Actually, I shouldn't say that. It's not that there's less focus, it's going to include more focus areas because I don't just want you to create wealth in terms of money because wealth is so much more than that.
The subtitle of my book is Peace, Purpose, and Plenty of Cash, in terms of how I define wealth. And the origin of the word wealth is actually not from money. I think it's actually from the word wellness or wellbeing, happiness. Listen, having a lot of money is awesome, it's super fun, it allows you to do so much, it gives you freedom. It gives you a way to have even more impact in the world.
But I want you to create wealth in all the areas of your life. Confidence, power, really owning yourself. That's true wealth. I think I did an episode talking about emotional wealth, so I've already talked about it a little bit. But this is taking things a bit further.
What would it be like if you could create wealth in other areas of your life, relationships, creativity? This is something I've been working on too. How do I feel wealthy inside and not just on the outside? Outside meaning having money, doing the things I want to do with money, how do I create happiness inside without needing anything external? How can I own who I am? How can I be comfortable with who I am?
The word being authentic and authenticity is thrown around a lot. I think it means, I don't know what the dictionary definition is, but I think it just means being who you are and not hiding yourself. Not pretending. We all know who we are deep inside and so many of us have kept it hidden, have kept things hidden.
And there's probably good reason why you have been doing that, things from childhood, maybe it wasn't safe to express certain aspects of you. We're afraid of what people think so we pretend we are different people depending on who we are around. I know you know what I'm talking about.
So to me, that's the whole package of wealth, having the money and owning who you are. Knowing and owning all of your amazingness, all of your power. You're all powerful, everyone listening, to be confident and to expand your capacity in whatever area of your life that's important to you.
To me that is what living wealthy and being wealthy actually is. And so that's one of the reasons why I'm going to do a series of episodes in September on different areas of life. We're going to talk about your body and weight loss. We're going to talk about sex. We're going to talk about grief, and not traditional grief in terms of losing a loved one, although it'll include that, how to think about and handle any sense of loss.
And that's not necessarily just a person. It could be a loss of a previous identity, because if you are growing and evolving, you are constantly changing and moving into old identities and it's totally natural to grieve that old identity. If you're someone who's changed careers, you might be grieving the old career.
So I'm just super excited about the series of episodes that are coming up. I know you're going to love them, you're going to learn so much. And it's going to make you think about how you can cultivate wealth in those areas of your life that maybe you haven't been paying as much attention to because you're so focused on X, Y, Z.
All right, that was kind of a long intro. I didn't mean to talk that much about it. But I'm super excited about it, can't wait to share all the things with you, and how my flagship program is going to be changing because I want to teach women how to be confident, powerful, and rich.
Because let's just be honest, we're the ones who know what we're doing. We're the ones who are going to make the biggest difference in this world. Listen, I love all of you, men. I have a son, I have a partner, I have a bonus son, and so many things that haven't done well in the hands of men.
All right, let's move on to today's topic, which is about talking about failure. Specifically, my failures, my mistakes. I've had people tell me that they think or at least on the outside, and maybe it's because of my social media, and that's the problem with social media, is that it looks like I'm perfect. No one has all their shit together. And anyone who says they do is lying, or is just living a really small life, right?
So I'm going to talk to you guys about some of the mistakes I've made, money and not money. And I'm going to, of course weave in how I think about failure now and how I want you to think about failure. So as a reminder, the way I define failure is all it means is not getting an outcome that you want.
In fact, I really think we should erase the word failure from our vocabulary because basically failure is a label that we give to an outcome. When I say outcome, it means an outcome or an action. And you're the one telling yourself it was a failure. And generally speaking, when people say I failed or I made a mistake, it doesn't feel good.
I've never really heard anyone say I failed, and they feel great about it. Well, I'm sure people do who have really changed their relationship with failure. But for most of you, it's a negative relationship, a negative thing, experience for you. So here's some of mine.
Before I went to medical school there was a lot of time between me finishing college and med school. I had a job, I basically lived paycheck to paycheck and there was a period of time where I wasn't working and I cashed out my 401K from the job I had for four years. And if I didn't, it would probably be worth over, I did the math at one point. It would definitely be at least six figures, if not multiple six figures. So I could consider that a mistake, or not.
Another sort of thing that I tell myself that I probably should have done differently is waiting way too long to invest in real estate. Is that a failure? What do you think? Another mistake that I think that I made money wise is buying a car in cash. At that time I kind of bought into the mentality that if you can't buy a car in cash, you can't afford it.
And looking back, I’m kind of pissed at myself for doing that because I basically gave away all that capital that could have been working for me. And now I think very differently about buying a car in cash. I mean, honestly, car loans are so cheap, and when I mean cheap, the interest rate is low.
Another failure, this is more recent, is I didn't reach my business goal last year. And the previous two years, whatever goal I made, I hit it. And I will tell you that I felt so bad for way too long about not reaching my goal among other things that kind of went along with that in my business. And it's only very recently where I no longer think of what happened as a failure.
I have fails every single day, especially when it comes to parenting. In fact, one of the things that one of my mentors and coaches, Brooke Castillo, says is, actually when she's teaching us how to achieve big goals, like really big goals, she calls them impossible goals, is we actually have to collect a certain amount of failures per quarter. I think like maybe it's 25 or more.
And I've talked about this before, I'm constantly telling my clients, and it's probably one of the hardest things to really shift is really knowing that failing is part of succeeding. What if we could all tell ourselves the more fails we accumulate, the closer we are to achieving what we really want? I mean, this is actually true but we have been taught the opposite in terms of our schooling, and training, and just in our culture.
So I kind of want to bring it back to what I said before, is a failure is just a story you're telling yourself about an outcome that you obviously didn't like, or you're regretting a decision. You're the one telling yourself that. Yeah, maybe other people are telling you that too. But it's just an opinion. It's just a story. You're the one telling yourself it's a mistake or a failure.
Now, I'm not suggesting you ignore whatever happened and pretend it didn’t happen. That's not what I'm saying. But it's about approaching the outcome with curiosity. Like, hmm, I wonder why that happened. I wonder how that happened? What happened? What can I learn from this? What can I do next?
And remember, if you've never made a mistake, you're playing way too small. As I've said before, that means you're playing not to lose versus playing to win. And many of my clients inside of my money program, they're so afraid of making a mistake when it comes to money because of what they're making the failure mean, because failing in money basically usually means you've lost money. And because pretty much all of my clients are perfectionistic women, you are too probably.
And the thing with being a perfectionist is, first of all, it really makes for a miserable life because you're always failing, or winning, or succeeding. That type of thinking we call all or none thinking, where you can only see things in like a binary sort of way, is like the hallmark of perfectionism. Because we're the ones saying it's all or none, that it's a failure or a success.
There's way so many other labels that we could give it and we're the ones making up the labels. So here's how I deal with failure, meaning I get an outcome I don't want. The first thing is it's okay to be disappointed that you didn't get the outcome that you want. I'm not suggesting that you should be happy when it happens. It's okay to be disappointed. Allow yourself to be disappointed. Give yourself some time to be disappointed, it's okay.
And then when you're ready, have the utmost gentle compassion and comfort for yourself. This, I think, is one of the most important things that we can learn and do for ourselves. It's our ability to love and care for yourself, even when we “make mistakes.” It's loving ourselves in the good, the bad, the ugly, because the fact is, you're human. There's going to be some great stuff, some not so great stuff, and everything in between.
It means you're human, congratulations. You are allowed to comfort and love yourself, even when you do things are not proud of. It's accepting your humaneness and loving all parts of it.
And in fact, I didn't mean to plan it this way, but this is living wealthy when you can do this for yourself. Because that's what's required to create wealth in all the areas of your life. Being willing to make some moves, being willing to go after something, and loving yourself when you have setbacks. Because there are going to be setbacks, everywhere. It's just a thing. It's part of life.
And the more you can get on board with that, the more you can trust yourself and know that no matter what, you're going to be there for yourself, you're not going to abandon yourself, the sky is truly the limit. And I'm so excited to be teaching you more about this and coaching you and everything.
So I hope you come along with me on this journey. And if you want to start learning all this, then you definitely need to join us inside of Money For Women. The name is going to change soon, obviously, and can't wait to coach you personally there.
All right, I'll see you guys all next week.
Hey, if you're ready to create wealth, I want to invite you to join my program, Money For Women Physicians. You'll join a community of like-minded women physicians, who are committed to creating wealth, just head over to wealthymommd.com/money to learn more.
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For all other inquiries please click here.
120: How I Manage My Time and Reduce Distractions
I’m fresh off the back of lots of travel, and it really got me thinking about time management and how we focus. I found it so difficult to tend to my business while traveling, and when I had time, I found focusing a real challenge. Now, whether you’re traveling or not, I know so many of you struggle with focusing as well.
Because of our phones, we truly are the distracted generation. They make it so difficult to be present and pay attention. So, I’m inviting you to consider breaking up with your phone, and I’m giving you my advice for focusing better and some time management tips you can implement in your life right now.
Tune in this week to discover an amazing system for managing your time and reducing distractions. I’m sharing how I schedule my time and the steps I take to make sure I’m taking action in the most important areas, and showing you how to do the same for yourself.
Learn more about Money for Women where you'll learn how to master your money mindset and create wealth on your terms.
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
- How being distracted by our phones affects our brains.
- Where a lack of focus and attention has been showing up in my business and my life in general.
- Two amazing resources I use to manage my time and plan for the immediate future.
- Why it’s so important to schedule time for your needs first before worrying about everyone and everything else.
- How to make sure everything on your to-do list leads to a desired outcome.
- My practical tips for reducing distractions when you need to focus.
Listen to the Full Episode:
Featured on the Show:
- Follow me on Instagram
- How to Break Up with Your Phone by Catherine Price
- Free to Focus by Michael Hyatt
- Full Focus Planner by Michael Hyatt
- Monday Hour One
Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it, and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level your money and your life. I’m your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.
Hey everyone, how are you guys all doing? So we are in the full swing of summer. As you may remember I've been traveling like crazy and I'm so excited for the summer to be relatively chill. And the only trips we have planned are driving distance, no planes. And I'm really excited to not be on a plane for a while. It was way too much and it really, really tired me out.
And I felt like it kind of threw me off track personally and inside my business because it was just really hard to tend to things. And so this actually is a great segue into today's topic. I actually want to talk about how I manage my time and sort of give you the inside view of how I manage my time and also to give you some tips on how to focus, because I feel like a lot of us have trouble focusing now.
We're distracted, we are the distracted generation because of our phones. I mean, this isn't news to you. I'm sure wherever you go, I live in New Jersey, so I don't think it's a New Jersey specific phenomena. I live in a high rise luxury building and I get on the elevator, everyone's on their phone. I see people walking, where I live I can walk pretty easily to stores, everyone's on their phone.
To me, that's really weird. I mean, I've done that too, to be honest. But it means you're not paying attention and there's a lot of cars around. And so I've pretty much stopped doing that because it's just not a good idea.
Okay, so let's just talk about the lack of focus. So the reason why I'm doing this episode is because this is something I've really been tackling head on lately because I noticed that I was really distracted. And I don't have a diagnosis of ADHD, I don't pretend to be an expert on that. But I kind of felt like I had ADHD. Meaning that I couldn't pay attention to things, I was having a lot of trouble focusing, and that I couldn't remember anything.
Now, I generally don't remember things even before the age of phones and et cetera. In fact, it's kind of a joke in my family. I'm pretty sure I've said this before, which even just goes to tell you that I really don't remember things. But there's a joke in my family that I keep forgetting the plot of the movie Taken. It's a joke because the plot is in the title.
But yes, I have a tendency to repeat myself. Even my friends say, “Hey, you already told us that.” I'm like, okay, whatever. I just don't even apologize for it anymore. If they've heard it, they can just tell me and I won't say it anymore.
So I read this book called How to Break Up with Your Phone. And I recommend it to you because if you're listening, you probably have a phone problem too. I think it's pretty universal. It's a very quick read, I downloaded it on my Kindle, well I don't have a Kindle, my iPad. You can obviously get a physical book as well if you want to.
Like I said, it's a quick read, the first three chapters just kind of describe the problem. And the part that really caught my eye, or my brain rather, is three short chapters on how it affects our brains. Basically it really messes up with our ability to pay attention, which kind of makes sense. But there's also some brain science behind it, and so I think that will be really useful for you to read about.
And the gist of it is that our phone use trains our brain to be distracted all the time. And it also said that our brains prefer and like to be distracted, like that's the natural tendency. And this just makes it so much easier to be distracted because focusing and paying attention requires a lot of effort. Makes sense, right?
And so it actually gives you a 30 day break up plan with your phone, I think I'm on day four or five. I've actually done this program before but I actually didn't get through the whole thing. But I feel really motivated to do it now because my lack of focus and attention, I can tell, has been affecting lots of areas of my life, not just my business.
So in terms of how I schedule things and get things done, so first I want to say do what works for you. I definitely have friends that don't like to plan and calendar really specifically. But most of the people that I work with or listen to my stuff, we’re generally type A planners, so it might be helpful for you.
So what I do is a combination of something called Monday Hour One, and Michael Hyatt’s Free To Focus Planning System. So let me explain what those two things are and how I kind of combined them. So Monday Hour One is actually a course inside of Self-Coaching Scholars, which is a coaching membership by the Life Coach School. And that's where I got certified as a life coach.
So I am a current member, I will probably be a member forever. I think right now I'm a Triple Diamond, it just means I've been there for three years. And this course is basically about time management, or how to get things done is a better way to think about it.
So the basic way to approach Monday Hour One, and then I'm going to segue into how I use that with Michael Hyatt’s planner, is basically you take about 30 minutes to do this process. Basically you dump all the shit out of your brain. Every single thing because the thing is, when you have all these to-dos floating around in your brain it takes up space. I call it like mental load, it literally takes up space in your brain.
And even if you don't think it is, it's like this little background anxiety of the things that you aren't getting done. So you want to take out a piece of paper, it's much more effective in my opinion if you use paper. I have a, it's basically a legal pad but it's white instead of yellow. I just dump everything on there.
In fact, I had not brain dumped in some time so it was like five pages long. And you can just start writing things in no particular order. I like to break things up between personal, business, and maybe even money things, but that's within personal stuff anyway. But you don't have to do that, you can literally just start writing things down. And I will tell you, it's really freeing to get it all out of your brain.
And then you really want to put them in categories. Again, this is going to take some time. And if you haven't done this in a long time it's going to be, I don't wanna say painful, but it's going to take some time to do this. But believe me, it will be worth your time. You're going to feel so much better once you get it all out of your brain.
And the first thing is you really want to look at it, like look through all the things you wrote down. And here's what I want to say, and I tell this to my clients all the time, there is nothing you have to do. Did you know that? You don't have to do anything.
So I just recommend to stop telling yourself that you have to do something. You really don't have to do it, really. Instead, tell yourself I want to do this, I choose to do this. And looking at this list of yours, feel free to cross stuff off the list that you just don't want to do. You have my permission to do that.
Here's something that I suggest, before you start scheduling these into your calendar, I use Google Calendar specifically, most of us think of to-do lists as to-dos, like the actions. One thing that I want you to start considering is to instead of thinking of action, items to-do list items, think about what the actual outcome is that you want. Because everything you're doing is to produce a certain outcome, correct?
Let me give you some examples. So one of the things on my to-do list was to figure out something called Cloudflare. Cloudflare? Yeah, Cloudflare. It's a bit of a tongue twister, right? Nothing that you have to know about, but if you have a website you probably have heard of it because it's, I actually don't know what it is so I can't explain it.
But it's something that one of my website people, because I have two of them, needed because they were doing some changes on my website. And so that was on my list of things to do, figure out Cloudflare so my web person can do whatever she needed to do. So that's a to-do.
Now, I don't do this outcome thing with everything, but it helps me think about things when I'm feeling overwhelmed because ultimately everything we do or want to do is because there's a certain outcome or result that we want.
And so the reason why this to-do, as an example, the outcome is I want a website that works, meaning when you go to wealthymommd.com, it'll work, it'll be there, right? So that's the outcome. So that's just an easy example.
And the reason why I think it's really useful to think about things this way is it's really easy to get overwhelmed by all the to-dos. But if you really think about why you're doing this, like what's the outcome you're creating? I find that it just relaxes my brain a little and makes me feel more calm because instead of all these list items, the list of outcomes tends to be, well it makes sense, right? It's going to be a lot shorter.
And I definitely do cross off things I don't want to do. And sometimes that means telling someone or something, even if I've said I was going to do it, and literally tell them I can't do this anymore. Which ultimately means that you might disappoint some people, and you don't have to do it. And I think it's an important reminder that it's really important to prioritize ourselves instead of doing all these things for other people because women, we tend to do that.
So in Monday Hour One, after you've sort of creating this to-do list or results list, usually it's a combo of the two because it's just not natural for us to think about results or outcomes, we're really trained to think about to-do things, is to schedule it in your calendar.
Now, before I get into how I want you to think about that, we need to talk about the importance of something called focus time. That's the concept from Michael Hyatt that I use. Now, I know many of you listening have full-time jobs, full-time physician, et cetera and so you already have a lot on your plate.
So before I go into what focus time is and how to schedule it, I mean, it's pretty obvious what it means, right? I want you to actually schedule the things for you first. Because here's what most of us do, we schedule things like work, stuff for our kids, maybe other things that need to get done around the house or whatever to be an adult. So many annoying things to do as an adult these days, right?
And then if there's anything left over, which there usually isn't, maybe you'll get 10 minutes to yourself. So I want you to reverse that order. Figure out what you need. And it's going to be different for everyone, so maybe it's working out. Maybe it's specifically carving out time to spend with your partner. Maybe it's specific time you want to spend with your child. Maybe it's catching up with friends. Maybe it's scheduling a vacation with your friends.
Whatever you need to feel you and to feel relaxed, whatever you want to call it. Basically, it's you time. It's personal time. It's fun time. However you want to categorize it, I want you to actually put that in your calendar first. Now, if you have a job that's going to be pretty much the same hours every day, like you already know that schedule so you probably don't need to put it in your calendar unless you work sort of uneven shifts.
But I want you to put your stuff first. And this is really hard for most of us because number one, none of us have probably done that before. And two, it seems like the wrong thing to do because you're like, well, don't I have to do all these other things, like they're more important? But when you do that you're basically telling yourself that you're second fiddle to all these other things.
So this is about putting you first. So I think that might be hard for a lot of us. Then you want to schedule the focus time. Now, Michael Hyatt and Monday Hour One I believe, actually no, this is Monday hour one, I think, in terms of a concept is scheduling two hours of focus time at a time.
Now for those of you with full-time jobs this might not be an option on a regular basis, so start with an hour. And for those of you saying I don't even have an hour, I know you do because we also spend a lot of time or waste a lot of time on our phones. In fact, the how to break up with your phone book talks about looking at your screen time statistics.
Now if you have an iPhone, you go to settings and screen time and it tells you some really scary numbers. It says how many times have you picked up your phone and how much time have you spent on it. So unless you're someone who already doesn't spend a lot of time on your phone, I'm guessing there's at least one hour you spend on your phone, if not more. It can be really scary, so just warning you if you have not looked at your stats lately.
I'm not saying you need to schedule an hour every day, by the way. So if this is a new concept to you, start simple. That's like one of my favorite things I always tell my clients, like start simple and get fancy later. So start with scheduling an hour maybe once or twice a week, you get to decide. But if you want to start with one, that's totally fine.
Now, focus time is what it sounds like, meaning you have no other distractions. So you want to put your phone on silent, or better yet put it on Do Not Disturb so you don't even hear it vibrate. No distractions period. This means not looking at your phone for texts, not looking at Facebook, not looking at Instagram. It's just you and the things you need to pay attention to.
Now the next question is, well, what do you schedule or what do you do during your focus time? This is where you decide. And here are some of the pitfalls that I see with people, including myself. We think we can get a lot of stuff done during our focus time. Now, you might be able to, but we usually overestimate what we can get done in a short amount of time.
Going back to your brain dump list of things, you want to make things really specific because here's what I see a lot. For example, one of the things that a lot of my clients put off is estate planning because we know it's important but we don't really want to deal with it. So we just don't do it because we think it's fine, we'll do it later.
Also, if you put on your focus time estate planning, you probably won't actually know what to do. And this is what happens, you put something like a big category like estate planning on your focus time. Let's say it's Saturday at 9am in the morning, you're going to look at that, have no idea what that actually means and or feel completely overwhelmed because what does that even mean, estate plan?
Does it mean working on your will? Does it mean finding a lawyer? It's a lot of things, right? And so your brain is going to be like, “Wow, this sounds really complicated, we are feeling overwhelmed. Let's just eat a cookie instead.” Or I guess Saturday at 9am it might be let's go out to breakfast instead.
So it's really important to be really, really specific. And if this is something you have trouble with, meaning have trouble with getting things done because you do get overwhelmed when you try to schedule things, make it really, really simple. First of all, it just shows your brain like, oh yeah, we can definitely do this. And it's going to help you think about what you need to get done in a more useful way.
So using that example of estate planning, do not put that on your calendar, you're not going to know what to do. So it might be email or text my friends about referrals. Post in Facebook group to find a lawyer. So it might be find a lawyer, and then like thinking about how you will do that. And then once that's done, you could be like, okay, what's next? And so forth.
I'm a big fan of batching, I think I've talked about it on my podcast before. But this simply means batching similar tasks together. And this works because your brain is sort of thinking the same way and it's sort of easier to get it all done at once. Remember, this is focus time, no distractions. You will get so much shit done when you actually do this without any distractions, any notifications.
Now, as you're figuring out this system it's going to be completely normal for you to overestimate what you can get done, normal. Or things take longer than you scheduled, normal. So you’ve got to give yourself some grace as you figure out this new system of getting shit done.
Now, I'm not saying you have to schedule every single thing on your to-do list. But if you find it helpful, then do it. And remember to break things up into little, tiny, tiny steps because when you see a tiny thing on your calendar, like find a lawyer, even though for some people that might be overwhelming to break it down into who can I text? Where can I post? Who can I ask?
That breaks it down and your brain is like, oh yeah, we can do that. We can text a friend. We can post on a Facebook group asking for referrals. Your brain needs those quick, easy instructions. Remember, our brains are lazy. And once you do those things you're going to feel good because you've made progress on something you may have been avoiding for a long time.
So this is something I do a lot inside my program, Money For Women, is breaking things down into simple steps. I can do that, but then also coaching the client to tell me what are the steps that they are going to take? Because let me give you actually a very common example that comes up in the program.
A lot of my clients want to invest in real estate syndications. And so they'll say things like I really want to invest in one and they give a timeframe. But then they get overwhelmed because like what do they do first et cetera? And so I'll just be like, okay, what do you think the first thing you have to do is? And they said, oh, I guess it might just be doing the course, or spending 30 minutes reviewing the videos, or posting in their Facebook group, things like that.
Now, let me just spend a few minutes talking about the paper planner I use. Now, this is not required. I really used to think there was a perfect planner for me. And I don't think it exists. And I think this is why people create their own and why there's so many new planners popping up because people want things a certain way.
I do not think I'm going to create my own planner, although it's definitely occurred to me. I was actually thinking of creating some kind of money planner. Now, we do have a workbook inside of Money For Women, which kind of gives you that. But the workbook also is kind of an instructional as well. And so it's not quite just a workbook, anyway, I digress.
So the Michael Hyatt planner is called the Full Focus Planner. It's on the pricey side because you have to buy four of them per year and they run between 40 and 50 bucks per planner, which I know you might be like that's crazy. But it is a great system, I really like it. It is broken up by day. There's stuff in the beginning for months and tasks and goals.
And I really like the way they present it. You can go to, or just Google Michael Hyatt Full Focus Planner and you can actually see how the pages work. And they even have a whole, like how to use the planner because it is like a system. I've actually gone on and off from using it. The reason why you need four books a year is because each book is one quarter.
And so I actually just started reusing it again to see if I want to keep using it. But I think I will because I really like, even though I use Google Calendar, I really like to sit down and spend a few minutes just planning out my day, thinking about it, looking at my appointments, writing it out. It has the space to write out your actual schedule.
Yes, it's on Google Calendar, it might seem repetitive, but something about writing it down is super helpful. And then I like to actually put in parentheses between my appointments the times I have free because I do coaching calls, I have private clients, I have my group coaching calls, and meetings, appointments, et cetera.
But what I do do first is always scheduled in my focus time, and I like to do it in the mornings because my brain is definitely the freshest than. And so I will schedule in those two hours of focus time. And if I have more time available during the day where I know there are certain things I should do, I will schedule additional focus time.
Now, this week I've had a lot of focus time multiple times a day because I'm just playing a bit of catch up from traveling a lot. However, it's been really taxing on my brain and by the time four or five rolls around I am beat. I am super tired. I've been really tired this week, probably because of all the focus time, because focus time does require a lot of energy and attention from your brain.
And I'll be honest, it's been kind of hard to be 100% distraction free because I'm so used to checking notifications. I had to turn a lot of them off so I wouldn't hear those stupid beeps. And this is where the importance of scheduling your stuff coming first is so important.
So scheduling my focus time first, before other appointments, is really important. And I actually make it like a recurring thing on my calendar. My assistant has specific instructions on how to schedule things for me. I basically don't do any calls or appointments until at least 1pm in the afternoon, if not 2pm, that way I can have that morning time to really focus and get things done.
And I don't really do much work on Mondays and Fridays. And so I really sort of pack it in Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. It's not that I don't ever have appointments on Monday and Friday, but I try to keep those days relatively free and really work on my personal stuff during those days. Or I might spend extra time with my son, for example.
Okay, I hope that was useful and we will put links in the show notes if you want to find out more about the Michael Hyatt Full Focus Planner and the Monday Hour One program. I think you have to be inside of Self-Coaching Scholars to get that. You might be able to buy it as a standalone course but it probably would just makes sense to join Self-Coaching Scholars as well because you get so much more. All right. I will see you guys next week.
Hey, if you're ready to create wealth, I want to invite you to join my program, Money For Women Physicians. You'll join a community of like-minded women physicians, who are committed to creating wealth, just head over to wealthymommd.com/money to learn more.
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119: Build Your Real Estate Empire with Letizia Alto
This week, you’re hearing from returning guest, Letizia Alto. She’s the person who first introduced me to investing in long-term cash-flowing rentals, and I’m having her back to talk all things real estate because for almost all of my clients, investing in real estate is the next most logical step for taking care of their financial futures.
Leti is a hospitalist and family medicine doctor by training, but she and her husband decided to free themselves from the 60+ work-week grind by becoming real estate investors in 2015. They started Semi-Retired MD where they teach doctors and other high-income professionals how to invest in cash-flowing long-term rentals, and she’s here today to demystify the process of starting your real estate journey.
If you want to create other streams of income, feel empowered taking control of your money, and maybe build a real estate empire along the way, this episode is for you. Leti is walking us through three reasons why real estate is such a popular investment vehicle, how she helps her clients reach mastery in this realm, and why not investing in real estate is actually riskier than you think.
Learn more about Money for Women where you'll learn how to master your money mindset and create wealth on your terms.
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
- 3 reasons real estate is so popular as an investment vehicle.
- Letizia’s journey of finding financial freedom through real estate.
- What I’ve personally done so far in the real estate realm.
- Why you might feel scared to learn about and invest in something new.
- How to override your primal fears to become comfortable with the notion of investing in real estate.
- Why it’s actually risky to not invest in something other than the stock market.
- The beliefs that are keeping people from investing in real estate.
- How Leti and her husband teach doctors and other high-income professionals how to invest in long-term rentals.
Listen to the Full Episode:
Featured on the Show:
- Follow me on Instagram
- Semi-Retired MD: Website | Blog | Podcast
- Check out Leti’s course, Zero to Freedom with Cashflowing Rentals!
- 6: Introduction to Real Estate Part 1
- 7: Introduction to Real Estate Part 2
- 8: Building Wealth through Direct Real Estate with Dr. Letizia Alto
- PIMDCON 2022
Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it, and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level your money and your life. I’m your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.
Hey, everyone. Today I have a special guest, Letizia Alto, I call her Leti and I think she goes by Leti as well. And I've had her on the podcast before and so we'll link in the show notes that episode. It was actually pretty early on in the podcast and so this will obviously overlap, but things have also changed since we recorded that podcast.
So I'm having her back to talk about real estate because that is basically what almost all of my clients invest in next. And when I say next, I mean after they invest in their retirement accounts, because by default most of us have retirement accounts that are invested in the stock market. So real estate is really the next logical thing.
And so the reason why I'm having her on is while she's the person who introduced me to investing in long-term rentals, long-term cash flowing rentals specifically. And so we're going to talk about her journey with finding financial freedom with real estate.
And I'm going to share a bit about what I've done so far in the real estate realm, specifically buying properties because I also own passive investments. And how to be open to starting this. Because I know it can be scary to invest in something new, to learn something new.
This is something I teach and talk about all the time with my clients inside of Money For Women and my private clients, our brains will automatically label anything new as literally dangerous. And that's why people feel scared. That's why you feel scared when you're thinking about something that is new and maybe seems complicated. It's normal is what I want to say. We talk about that a little bit, but it's totally normal. It's sort of part of our default human wiring.
I've talked about the motivational triad and I'll say it briefly right here, is the three things that our primitive brain, lizard brain, whatever you want to call it is motivated by. So the first one is it wants to seek pleasure. It wants to avoid pain, that's emotional and physical, obviously. And it doesn't want to spend energy, it wants to conserve energy. And this makes total logical sense when you realize that the brain’s number one job is to keep you alive, literally survival.
And so it's always scanning things for around these three things I just mentioned. And the conserving energy is a really big thing that I don't think people necessarily know, but it'll explain why sometimes you're not able to do things or why it's hard to do things. And it's normal, and there's nothing wrong with you, you're not lazy, you're not defective. Because some of my clients say, well, I'm just not motivated, I need to get more motivated et cetera, and it's just totally normal.
So think about this, anything new you have to learn is going to take energy and effort. And your brain doesn't want to do that. Your brain is like, hey, this looks hard, this is going to require a lot of energy. I really don't want to spend that energy, let's watch Netflix instead. Your brain is going to be like, let's just watch that instead. That's so much more fun, I don't have to do anything, I can relax, I can just sit on the couch.
That's normal. It's to be expected. And you can also override that primal desire using our prefrontal cortex to do something else. Because here's the thing, it does take something to take charge of your life. It takes something to create wealth. It takes something to do something that you're not already doing.
And I love having Leti on the show, I love talking about real estate, because it is, like I said, a very logical next way to invest in something and we want to demystify it a little bit.
Now, there are so many ways to invest in real estate and so that is outside the scope of one podcast episode. I don't specifically teach what Leti teaches in my program, Money For Women, again, because there are literally whole courses on every aspect of real estate. So it's just, it's a whole encyclopedia of things.
I'm not saying this to overwhelm you, but I do think it's really important to understand why real estate is so popular as an investment vehicle. Like if you think of all the super rich people, they all own real estate and there's a reason why, right?
And so actually inside of Money For Women I do have a lesson where I give you an overview of real estate. Meaning I talk about why it's something you should consider, the different ways to invest, and talk about some of the unique features of investing in real estate, and tax savings is a huge part of it. Because if you're listening to this podcast, you are a higher income earner and you're paying a lot of taxes.
All that said, Leti and Kenji teach a program called Zero to Freedom, where they teach doctors and other high professionals how to invest in cash flowing long-term rentals. If you don't know what that means, don't worry about it, you'll listen to the podcast. There is a way to invest in real estate safely, reducing your risk considerably.
And also, we're going to talk about some of the beliefs that keep people from investing in real estate. And also, I want you to consider that what you're doing now is actually not safe, and is actually very risky to not invest in something else besides the stock market. And you're going to hear why.
Bonnie: Hey, Leti.
Leti: Hey, Bonnie.
Bonnie: I'm so excited that you're here to talk about money, real estate, and all the things. So I know we've had you on the show before and we'll link that episode in the show notes in case any of you want to hear that. But today I wanted to talk about real estate, obviously. And well, first, why don't you introduce yourself for those that don't know you?
Leti: Sure, and thank you for inviting me to be here. So hi, everyone. I'm Leti, I am a hospitalist by training family medicine doc. I became a real estate investor in 2015 and run Semi-Retired MD, I'm the CEO. So I spend most of my time now running Semi-Retired MD and my husband actually is the CEO of our real estate portfolio. So we're still building that, we're at 150 units counting of long and short-term rentals.
Bonnie: Okay, we're going to have to define some things just in case some listeners are like, what are they talking about? What does it mean by doors? So first, why don't we just talk a bit about what is Semi-Retired MD?
Leti: So Semi-Retired MD is a company we started because we couldn't stop telling everyone about investing in real estate and what it had done for us. And when Kenji and I started back in 2015 investing together. Kenji had invested in real estate since 2001 actually, but we started investing together in 2015 in cash flowing rentals, which was very different from what he was doing before. He was doing appreciation plays, not cash flow.
So cash flowing rentals are rentals that bring money in every single month after you pay all expenses. That includes mortgage, property management, insurance, vacancy, everything you can imagine, if you still have money at the end of the month, that's called cash flow. So we started investing in cash flowing rentals together back in 2015, buying little duplexes and one fourplex.
And we figured out how to harvest some really killer tax savings and achieve financial freedom in three years. And then just started telling every doctor about it we could run into, and then blogging about it to teach others to do what we had done. And that was the beginning of Semi-Retired MD, which has now morphed into more of a blog, podcast, and courses teaching physicians how to invest in real estate.
Bonnie: Yeah, I was trying to remember when we connected. I actually remember our first phone conversation, it was with you and Kenji. It was when I was living in Philadelphia because, it’s so funny you remember certain things, but I remember being on my bed talking to you guys. But that was either 2017 or 2018.
Leti: Yeah, I think it was 2018, we were living in Hawaii. And you asked me to do a guest post, I remember that. I was so excited because our blog was pretty new and I didn't know many people and, you know, it was Miss Bonnie and it was such a big deal and I was just really excited. And yeah, I remember it too.
Bonnie: It’s so cool. Yeah, so some people don't know I had a blog. So yeah, I had a blog and it was Miss Bonnie MD. And now I've morphed as well into a podcast. Although I actually put the blog links back on my website because people were asking for it. So it's there if you want to see it.
Okay, so why don't we get started? So you kind of gave an overview of how you guys got into real estate. So here's what I want to talk about real quick, so one of the things I teach in my program, Money For Women, is to not rely on your current active source of income.
So for many of us, if you're a physician it's your physician job, W-2. And this is also if you're a practice owner, because you are an employee of your practice. And anyone else who has a W-2 job with no other income stream. So one of the things I teach is thinking about your money, your wealth as a table and you want to have as many legs as possible to make it as sturdy as possible so if one leg falls off it doesn't topple.
And so most people, by default have maybe two legs. And what I mean by maybe is they have their active income, and then most of us do have retirement accounts which has stock investments. But that's like a very weak leg initially, you know, it can get stronger in the future, but it takes time, right? Compound interest does work, as we know, but it takes a lot of time. Or you have to pour a lot of money into it to make it grow faster.
So it's very precarious, right? And so one of the things I love about what you do and just real estate in general in terms of what I've learned to is, to me, it's a logical third leg for most high income earners. Would you agree?
Leti: Yeah, definitely. You know, we weren't that sophisticated when we first started out. We just knew that we needed another source of income besides what we had coming in as doctors. And I don't think we, we didn't realize to the extent that we were at risk only having that doctor source of income.
And I don't even consider retirement accounts as another leg because they don't usually make you money every single month. So I think of them as a rainy day fund, but not really another source of income.
And I think the key for us is we really wanted something that was going to pay us every single month, that's the only money you can live on. If something happens and you can't work as a doctor anymore, I mean hopefully you have disability insurance, which I know you teach about.
But if you had another source of income that was paying you five or 10 or 15,000 a month, you got a lot less stress. And your stock portfolio or your 401K, that's not going to do that for you if this happens when you're in your 40s or 50s.
We really wanted this other source of income to give ourselves choices, that was really our motivation. But I think security is really, really important because I don't think a lot of us realize how at risk we are just having one person's W-2 income, or maybe two people's W-2 incomes, because things can shift. And Covid showed us that when people were furloughed or they took away their bonuses or whatever.
Things can shift, even for doctors, and I think a lot of us are pretty certainty driven. I know that's part of why I went into medicine, was I could see the path and I knew that I was going to have a certain amount of income at the end of it. And it just gave me that kind of sense of security, sense of confidence that I was always going to have a job. It's not necessarily true anymore.
Bonnie: Yeah, so you mentioned disability insurance but you can't insure for every possible loss of income. And so just to give examples, like I've had clients where they wanted to take a leave of absence because their spouse died. And, A, being able to take the time off and, B, not having to worry about the money for that, right?
Or, God forbid, if someone in your family gets sick, a child, like having the freedom to take that time off or maybe even quitting your job temporarily. You know, that's priceless, right? So I'm just getting chills thinking about it because it's so important.
Leti: Yeah, it totally is. And I actually did this in 2018. I had switched to a new job and I had a baby, I guess about three months in. And, of course, I wasn't going to get maternity leave because I was under a year of being at that job, and so I wasn't going to get any pay. And it was okay because I didn't need it. I took 16 weeks off unpaid and it was amazing to be able to do that and to have that freedom.
And that's really what I think both of us are working for, is for physicians to have that freedom because we've been in those shoes, and we know what it's like not to.
Bonnie: Yeah, I think it's probably the worst feeling in the world is to feel like you don't have choices because of money. You and I obviously see that so much. So yeah, so basically, the message here is having another source of income and income stream is really critical. I'd actually never thought of it or articulated the way you just did about how risky it is to only rely on a W-2 job.
And things have changed because I feel like, when I say a long time ago maybe I'm thinking about our parents, although my parents immigrated here from Korea. But I think there used to be this job security, you work for a company, you stayed there for your whole life, and then they took care of you. But that is no longer the case. Plus people jump from job to job a lot, people change careers, I just feel like things are so different now.
And so the onus is kind of on us to take care of our financial futures versus relying on a company to take care of us, even the physician company, Kaiser. And even that's like changing, in terms of guarantees for that.
So anyway, so obviously Leti and I, we're both all about empowering women, people to really take back their control and agency over their money. Okay, so why don't we talk a little bit about real estate, specifically about what you do and what you teach?
Leti: Yeah, I'll explain why real estate compared to any other pathway and why we chose it, and then what it's done. Again, I want to mention we really wanted cash flow. Cash flow is that money that comes in every single month. And what we realized is we didn't want to buy properties that just we were hoping that they were going to make some money by appreciating over time. We wanted something that was going to make money from day one.
And so what we did was we started buying these little properties. They weren't beautiful, they weren't fancy, they were just little properties that cash flowed. And we also harvested the tax savings. And I think real estate, not only for the cash flow, but the tax savings is a big deal. Because there are ways to use a tax savings to shelter your income.
There are a couple different ways. One with long-term rentals, which are rentals that you're renting for a whole year. And then there's a short-term rental tax loophole too, which are rentals for less than seven days on average. And so we were able to shelter, while we worked as doctors, with our real estate portfolio we were able to shelter our doctor incomes.
And so not paying income taxes for seven years really grew our wealth pretty quickly. And so I think especially for doctors, just hearing that there's a way to shelter some of your income from taxes, huge deal. Because if you're paying 20, 30% of your income out every single month, just getting that back, effectively you're getting a huge raise.
And if you're able to take that money and then reinvest it, now you've got the power of compounding and in a couple years you're in a very different position if you're very diligent about taking that cash flow and taking that tax savings and putting it back into your investing.
And then finally for us it was something we realized probably about a year in, which was forced appreciation. Which is the ability to increase the value of a property by making some really like just little changes. Sometimes it's just increasing rents because they're under market rents. Sometimes it's doing things like a rehab, and we can talk about your property a little bit and how you did that. Sometimes it's finding a garage and renting a garage or billing back utilities.
There's so many ways to make an investment property make more money, and when it makes more money it's worth more. So those three things really made real estate so attractive to us because it was cash flow, could replace our income, it was tax savings that was going to make our pathway that much faster. And then that ability of forced appreciation, which both increases your net worth pretty quickly, but also gives you some of the risk mitigation.
Bonnie: Yeah, so one thing that I quickly wrote down so I didn't forget is I think a lot of people have fear of investing in real estate. I think there's multiple reasons, and I could speak to my own. And I think number one is it's something new. If you’re not already doing it, it's something new. And anything new, our brains kind of are scared of because humans don't like change. And then also, I think a lot of us believe that real estate is very risky.
And here's how I’ve reconciled, and I'd love to hear your thoughts as well. You don't really have control, you don't have control over the stock market unless you're a major shareholder. And if you are, you wouldn't be listening to this podcast, right? Because you'd be off doing other things. And so, which to me is ironic because most of us, we want that certainty, that sense of control, security, but there really is very little security.
There's obviously trends and you can invest, I guess, because of that. Versus real estate, you have so much more control. And what I have found ironically, is like we want to have that control and flexibility, but then when we actually have the chance to have it, it can be scary, right?
Leti: Yeah, anything new, I think, is completely scary to all of us. And I can tell you when we first started this, even despite Kenji having investing experience since 2001, it was still a lot of unknowns. We were still figuring it out as we went and it was scary at times. I think that it's very natural to kind of doubt yourself, even when there are challenges. It's just, it's part of it.
But that control factor is huge because what it means is you trust yourself to take care of your finances. And I think as doctors we are fed this thing, which is doctors are not good at investing, which is total crap. I don't know if I'm allowed to swear. But it's total crap.
Bonnie: Yeah, go for it.
Leti: Doctors are totally capable of managing their own money, and making money, and learning how to make money. And being able to control your own destiny rather than just put money in the stock market and whatever happens happens because some random CEO made some decision somewhere else, or 10 CEOs made one decision. I don't like that. I want to have a role in my own destiny.
And so for us, we choose the properties we buy. We do a lot of due diligence. We have a really great team. And we buy properties and if they're not performing, we can sell them. If they add a lot of value we can sell them. There's so many things we can do, but we can ultimately choose when to sell, when to buy, what changes to make in the property.
And you're not alone, there are so many doctors investing in real estate. Just through our course over the last three years, over 3,000 doctors have gone through it.
Bonnie: Yeah, I think that's such a great point because I think, yes, it does take something to do this. When I say this, real estate because we're talking about that. But anything where you want to take control of your future, ownership, et cetera does take work versus what I call the status quo. Staying at a W-2 job and using the stock market.
And there's nothing wrong with that. But if you are not feeling great about that, you want something else, and I feel like whenever we meet people, like people might not be consciously thinking they want something else. But there might be like a tugging or just like something in the back of their mind, they’re like this isn't what I really want.
It's so important, A, to meet people who are thinking differently. And that's why I think it's so, like real estate is all about relationships, but I think really everything in life is about who you know, what ideas are exchanged. And so it's basically like what's the alternative, right? It is more comfortable to stay in what you're currently doing because you already know it.
And also a lot of my clients are like, “Well, I know if I work this shift, I'm going to make this my money.” Again, the certainty factor. But one of the things I love working with my clients, and it's so moving and amazing when they start seeing that there's another way and that they could, it's not even so much make more money. That's obviously fun and everything, make more money in less time.
But just for them realizing that they have choices and then having the courage to take those choices, because it is hard, right? I think it would be a disservice to say like, this is easy, do it, great. It's simple, but it's not easy.
Leti: Yeah, it takes, you have to learn a new skill. You have to learn a new language, so it's not without energy and effort and focus. And if you are very focused and very committed, you're going to have more success too. It's like anything, more time you put into it, if you are willing to achieve mastery, which takes a certain amount of time.
It's almost like crypto, right? You could just go put funds in Bitcoin and you might do well, you might not, you don't know because you haven't spent any time to educate yourself about it. Or you could spend 100, 150 hours and really understand cryptocurrency and then be sophisticated enough to go decide to put it in different places and maybe you'll do much better.
But you have to put that initial investment into reduce your risk so you understand what you're doing. And then to make those more educated choices that can be more home runs than just doing what everyone else is doing. And I think everyone's investing in the stock market so it feels safe. There are alternatives if you want to spend the time and energy and effort to learn about them.
And I actually think of us as very risk averse because we are constantly thinking about how to reduce the risk by forcing appreciation, by getting multiple viewpoints on the property before we even buy it. And we're always thinking about what's the worst thing that can happen and how can we mitigate against that happening?
Bonnie: Yeah, that's so important. And so the way I like to explain to my clients, because it might be easy to be like, oh, that sounds like a lot of work, I don't know. I think of it as like short-term discomfort versus long-term discomfort, short-term pleasure versus long-term pleasure.
And so yeah, there is some short-term immediate discomfort of learning something new because it's so easy to do nothing and just watch Netflix all night. But then you're trading it for the long-term pleasure of freedom, flexibility, et cetera.
And so that framework really helps my clients. It really helps me because yeah, none of us want to put in work. And let’s just be honest, by human default I'd rather be baking bread all day, or something else, right? But what I know is that if you do put in the time, effort, and also like working on growing your mind, because it is going to take that, you can make such big changes in such a short amount of time.
And when I mean big changes, I don't necessarily mean you're going to be a millionaire overnight. But when I just think about my path, and this will be a good segue into talking about my real estate portfolio. In just a few years, my life has been completely different. And I think some people are surprised, I think some people think I'm wealthy, whatever that means. But I definitely wouldn't say I have a super high net worth or tons of money in the bank. And I have all the freedom of flexibility in the world.
And just to give a quick example, my son Jack, he just started this preschool for kids with disabilities for speech therapy and occupational therapy. It's three hours in the morning and then he has to go to his private preschool. So it's a lot of driving and I'm able to do that. I just had to move some things around, but having that flexibility to do that.
Obviously, if I couldn't I would hire someone, but it's just so nice to be able to do things like that. Or if he had something, you know, had to go to the doctor, I can take care of that. So that's just an easy example of what I mean by the time flexibility and time freedom that I have, which is what most of us want and live the life that you want.
So let's talk about my property. So in case you guys don't know, I was very resistant to real estate. And thank God I met you and Kenji when I did because it took some time. But also I think this is normal, right? It takes time because it's like brand new, so I was like I don't know anything about that and scary complicated et cetera.
But as I met more people and our friendship continued, met Peter Kim and just started meeting people who are doing it. One, I think it kind of makes you feel a bit more safe like, oh, maybe it's not as complicated and risky as it is. And so there's that.
So let's talk about my first property. So I didn't actually buy it, so I did syndications first because that felt easier and safer to me. But I wanted to get started, it was important for me to get started in something and put some money into that. I'm trying to think, I think I bought it May of 2020, which is like right in the middle of the pandemic, right?
Because I know a lot of people say, oh, there's no deals. I know things have changed since, in terms of interest rates, et cetera. But I remember some people saying like we were crazy to do that. And so I'm going to say a little bit more about it, then you can ask questions.
So we bought a two door property, I don't know if I have the lingo correctly.
Leti: Duplex.
Bonnie: Duplex, yeah. Because to me a duplex is like two places together.
Leti: Yeah, yours was really, you know, two little houses, right?
Bonnie: Yeah.
Leti: But yeah, we have had those in the past too, we still consider them duplexes.
Bonnie: It's basically a duplex, yeah. So first, I want to say, like as soon as I made the decision to do it, things happened rapidly because basically I was just avoiding, like I don't know. But once I was like, I'm in, and then having my partner, Matt, on board. And also, he actually knew a lot more about real estate than I did.
So anyway, looking back, I wish we did it earlier, but it's fine. I don't like to regret things in the past. So, A, it was so easy to put an offer in to just do the evaluation based on what you guys taught me through your course and our friendship. It was like a game. It was actually kind of fun, which I never thought I would say about real estate.
And then we had a lot of roadblocks into getting it. So I do want to talk about that a little bit because it's so easy to be like, “Oh, this happened, it's not going to work out.” And we couldn't get a mortgage basically, is the bottom line. And that was because I was between jobs, Matt was between jobs. Basically, banks don't like unemployed people on paper.
But because of that year, 2020, and there was a Cares Act. For those of you who don't remember, emergency rules, laws, whatever you want to call it in place where you could actually take money out of your retirement account without the usual penalties. You could take extra loans out.
So actually we pulled money from both of our retirement accounts and ended up paying for it in cash. And then we put some money in for renovations. And then just recently we were able to pull out a lot of the money. And I'm sure Leti has some thoughts about that. But I just want to say real quick is that money we took out, I've since invested in two syndications, crypto, and Amazon stock. So that's fun.
Leti: Yeah, you know, we were biased to real estate, so we pull out money, we put it more into real estate. But I think that you're building up that diversification of all the things you're investing in, and that's one of the beautiful things about real estate is that if you can force appreciation, you could add value to a property.
Oftentimes, you can get a lot of your money out, if not all your money out and be able to use it in another place, and now your money is working actually effectively in two places. So you're still cash flowing on the first property and it has a certain return, and now you have another property that's making that same return. Or in your case, your investments, which hopefully will make some amount of return. And so your money works for you in two different places, you can't get that with the stock market.
Bonnie: Oh yeah, such a beautiful way to explain it. And yeah, so even though we did the cash out refi, it's still cash flowing pretty nicely. So that's fun.
So why don't we talk a little bit about how you and Kenji teach doctors and other high income professionals how to do long-term rentals, and maybe just demystifying it a little bit. Because I think when people hear like buying real estate, they think I don't want to be a landlord, I don't want to clean toilets and all that kind of jazz.
Leti: Yeah, so what we teach is in our course, Zero To Freedom, and that's really our flagship course. It takes people from knowing nothing about real estate all the way through buying properties. And sometimes we have people who are closing and buying properties during the course. Actually, pretty much every time we have that.
And so there are really some keys that you need to have in order to be successful in investing in real estate. One is a great team, and so we teach people how to find their team members and vet their team members. One is knowing how to use a cash on cash calculator because that's really the biggest tool we have as real estate investors, is understanding how a property is going to perform with the numbers before you even buy it.
So you're predicting performance, future performance, and so that helps you lower risk. Another thing we teach is how to force appreciation. How to add all that different value, how to recognize value in a property that other people can't even see. And then how to tap into that value and force that appreciation and get the value that much higher. We teach about asset protection.
Bonnie: I’m going to pause you for a second because I don't think I talked about how we forced appreciation for our property.
Leti: Yeah.
Bonnie: So one of the houses had, I think, a two bedroom, one bath. And then we moved a wall, moved a door and made it a three bedroom which obviously commands a higher rent. And also we did some really nice cosmetic changes and it looks fantastic. And so then we were obviously able to raise the rent appropriately.
Leti: Yeah. Yeah, your property looks amazing. I saw the after pictures compared to the first pictures. And then, of course, getting financing for real estate, so we teach about that as well. And then we teach about negotiation and how to make a good deal into an even great deal. How to find properties yourself, how to pick your market.
So there's a bunch of tools that you really need to start your real estate journey and be successful and build your empire as I like to see it. Because a lot of our students have gone on to build empires, 20, 60, we have one student at 141 units now and so they've gone bigger. Oh, and saved on taxes too. I forgot to mention that, we teach how to save on taxes.
So I like to think of our course, really, as a step by step kind of actionable course that even a couple of weeks in you've already made a lot of progress. And within four to five weeks you're already starting to put in offers because you have all the pieces in place.
And so it just turbocharges your journey and you get there so much faster because you have all the knowledge and the community of other doctors and professionals doing this. And we are all in there answering questions and helping each other succeed.
Bonnie: I know that was like a lot of information all at once. But the bottom line is, if you're ready to create additional streams of income and you just have your job and your stock market, which may or may not be an income stream right now, it probably isn't. Then I think real estate is the next logical choice.
And there's so many ways to invest in real estate. And I love that Leti and Kenji teach this relatively conservative way to invest. When I say conservative I mean like really mitigates risks so that you're positioning yourself for success from day one. And so that's really important. I know, that's really important to everyone, including myself.
And so as someone who's taken their programs, Zero To Freedom, and also I've had so many clients go through it. And so they're all investing in real estate and they're all at different points in their journeys, but the freedom and the flexibility. And also, I think what's really important is for women to feel empowered to take control their finances and to see that shift in them as people has been, I mean, that, I think, in itself is life changing.
So I'm so thrilled to be your friend and also to tell people about your program. And so by the time this podcast airs, their program is going to open on July 26th. So I'll have links in the show notes et cetera. But thank you so much for being here, Leti.
Bonnie: Thank you, Bonnie, for inviting me. And I hope everyone learned something about the value of real estate and are excited to learn to invest.
All right, I hope you guys got so much out of this episode. And then I wanted to also point to some other resources because of this is relatively new to you, I know that you're going to want to learn more, especially if this has piqued your interest.
So I want to, obviously, point you to the first episode I did with Leti, it's episode number eight. And in case you didn't know, for every podcast episode I do, you can find the show notes and the recording easily by going to wealthymommd.com/ the podcast number.
And so I had Leti on for episode eight, so that would simply be wealthymommd.com/eight. Of course, you can just go to my podcast page on my website and look for it there as well. And so episodes six and seven is where I actually give a nice overview of real estate, so I would definitely check that out.
And then finally, I also want to point you to another resource that will, I think pretty much still be available at the time of this recording and when this podcast comes out, is my good friend Peter Kim. I've also had him on the podcast, he teaches mostly passive real estate, but he is a well-rounded real estate investor, does passive and active and some really interesting things with real estate such as mineral rights investing, which I'm just starting to learn about.
Anyway, he is having an in-person conference this September. It's the weekend of September 23rd. It's not the first time he's done this, but it's the first time it's in person since the pandemic. So I went to the first one, I think it was fall of 2019. And so this is going to be September 23rd weekend of 2022. It's in Los Angeles, I will be there.
And this is why I recommend this conference, number one, well first of all, it's just so fun to be in person. Second, it's so important to meet, chat, connect with other people who are like-minded. And when I say like-minded I mean people who are thinking bigger, people who are looking to create more freedom.
And this is primarily through real estate, but you're going to meet all sorts of different people doing all sorts of amazing things. You're going to get inspired, you're going to get motivated, and I think it's just going to help you learn so much more about the different ways to invest in real estate, why it's something you should do.
This is not just for beginners though. Even if you are a seasoned real estate investor, as you know, real estate like many other things is based on relationships and connection. And so you're going to meet some amazing people at this. So I'm going to be there, there is a VIP option and you guys all know that, of course, I signed up for that. And you'll get to actually have a private reception/dinner with all the speakers and with a select group of the folks that will be there. So I will link that conference, the show notes.
And yes, I have another resource, I know this is a lot. Leti and Kenji’s program, Zero To Freedom, is going to open for sale on July 26th. And so this podcast will be coming out about a week before and so I wanted to give you time to think about it, to consider it. And it is the program that many of my clients have taken and so I have seen how great it's been for my clients, they love it.
And also, like I said, the community, the networking that they've been able to do to meet other like-minded physicians, high income earners. And this program isn't just limited to physicians, I want to be clear about that. It is geared towards higher income earners, because of our higher income we're able to really harness that to be able to buy properties worth a significant amount.
So that said, please check it out, it's called Zero To Freedom. And my hope for you is to create additional streams of income and to really know that you are in control of your financial destiny, that you have way more control and agency than you think you currently have. And if you're in a place where you really feel like that's not true, I just want you to consider that maybe, just maybe something else is possible for you.
Okay, everyone, I will talk to you guys next week.
Hey, if you're ready to create wealth, I want to invite you to join my program Money For Women Physicians. You'll join a community of like-minded women physicians who are committed to creating wealth. Just head over to wealthymommd.com/money to learn more.
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118: Making an Impact After Tragedy: How to Donate Effectively with Dr. Recha Bergstrom
Donating expert and philanthropy educator for physicians Dr. Recha Bergstrom is back on the show this week. In light of the recent tragedies we’ve seen, from gun violence, war, a pandemic, to natural disasters, many of us are feeling extremely emotionally activated. And as women physicians, we want to help and make a difference where possible.
Our visceral reaction to these tragedies is leaving us feeling angry, despairing, helpless, and like our brains are spinning in anxiety and trauma. You’re most definitely not alone if trying to find your focus here feels overwhelming. You might be reactively donating to causes you care about, but there is power in being intentional about how and where you donate, and this week, Dr. Recha is providing us a framework for how to do so.
Listen in as Dr. Recha Bergstrom offers her knowledge on donating effectively after tragedy. She’s laying out a step-by-step process for feeling empowered in the wake of such events, how she examines where she wants to make the biggest impact, and her top tips for ensuring you’re not giving to a fraudulent organization.
If you're ready to take control of your money and practice medicine on your terms, you need to check out Money for Women Physicians. Click here to learn more!
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
- Why philanthropy isn’t about having extreme wealth to make a difference.
- The difference between reactive and non-reactive giving.
- Why reactive donating isn’t the most effective way to spark change.
- The importance of pausing before taking action when you feel activated by tragedy.
- 3 steps to ensure you’re not giving to a fraudulent organization.
- One of the ways Dr. Recha examines where she wants to donate.
- Dr. Recha’s rule of thumb when it comes to donating on GoFundMe.
Listen to the Full Episode:
Featured on the Show:
- Learn more about Money for Women Physicians where you'll learn the tools to make practicing medicine OPTIONAL.
- Follow me on Instagram
- Dr. Recha Bergstrom: Website | Blog | Instagram | Facebook
- The Physician Philanthropist group
- Check out Dr. Recha’s philanthropy courses!
- How you can donate effectively after tragedy by Dr. Recha Bergstrom | KevinMD
- 85: Giving and Philanthropy for Physicians with Dr. Recha Bergstrom
- Guidestar
Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it, and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level your money and your life. I’m your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.
Bonnie: Hi, everyone. So excited to see you guys on Facebook, and we're also doing this on a live Zoom call. And hopefully you know that you're here for the how to donate effectively after a tragedy. And I literally decided to do this like two days ago, so we have things semi-planned out.
I have my friend Recha Bergstrom and so we're both here to talk about it. She's the donating expert, by the way, and we're just going to have a conversation. Because in light of the recent tragedies, I'm assuming you think they're tragedies if you're listening, we want to talk about how to donate effectively and talk about reactive donating versus non-reactive and just kind of talk about the nuances.
These are probably things that you already know, but I think it'll be super helpful to kind of provide a framework for you guys in terms of how to think about it. Because so many things have happened I think it's really easy to get like, obviously, activated and then also feel a little helpless, because I think all of us want to do something. So I think this is a really important conversation to have.
Recha actually just published an article on Kevin MD and I saw it because she posted it and I was like, I need to have her talk about it. And so here's what I want to say real quick because most of you probably haven’t listened to that podcast. When you hear the word philanthropy, when I hear that word, I don't know about you, but it conjures up the image of really rich people. Meaning it's like, oh, that's something really rich people do, that's not something I'll ever do.
So let's talk about that real briefly, actually, Recha, how are you defining philanthropy?
Recha: Well, that's a good question to start with. I define philanthropy or the definition is literally the love of humankind and trying to help out people. So anytime you do an act that helps other people, and it's particularly thought of in terms of monetary donations, that's what's considered philanthropy.
So, for me, giving $25 to something is philanthropy. It doesn't have to be a million dollars, it doesn't have to be fancy people sipping champagne at some giant gala fundraiser. There are lots of ways to do philanthropy, which can really just be thought of as giving back.
Bonnie: So yeah, I think it's really important to define that because really understanding the correct definition, I think just shows everyone that if you have donated, well philanthropy includes more than donating. But like in the context of donating money, if you have donated anything at all, you are a philanthropist.
And I just think that's so cool to consider yourself a philanthropist. I just feel like it kind of gives me a, not just a great feeling, but also stepping into that, right? Like you don't have to have a shit ton of money to make a difference.
Recha: I would call that empowering.
Bonnie: Yeah, exactly. Empowering, that's the word I was looking for, Recha. Okay. So let's talk about what you mean by reactive giving. And we're not saying it's bad to do reactive giving, but we just want to talk about it and describe it. So I'll turn it over to you, Recha.
Recha: Sure, so I think about giving as kind of in two major buckets, this reactive giving or planned giving. And the planned giving is more kind of long-term goals, kind of long game thoughts about the changes that you want to make in the world. And reactive giving is things like our reactions to things like the recent shootings and tragedies such as that.
And what reactive giving is, and it's called a lot of different things now and there's a new term floating around a lot, which is rage giving. We are so activated by the things that we see in the media, by the things that are happening around us, we have a very strong emotional reaction to them. It might be rage, or anger, or despair, or whatever.
And a lot of us, kind of the first reaction that we have is we want to do something. We want to make a difference. We don't want this stuff to happen again. Or we want to help the people who have suffered a tragedy. And so in reaction to those feelings, we make a donation.
So there's two points that I'd like to make about this. One is, this is not necessarily the most effective way to affect change. It can be helpful and it really depends on where you're donating. But thinking of things a little bit more in depth can often lead to a little bit more helpful giving.
The other thing to be aware of is that a lot of organizations are going to play on those emotions. They are going to try to press all of those buttons and they might not be offering the kind of outcome that you might be interested in. So it's really important to pay attention when your buttons are all being pressed by everybody, either by valid organizations or fraudulent organizations that are getting in on all the excitement of the rage giving that's going on.
Bonnie: Oh, that's such an important point. I'm guessing we're going to talk more about how to make sure you're not giving to a fraudulent organization. I definitely knew that was a thing, but I think it's so important.
I just want to say one more thing before we kind of get to the next topic, because you mentioned like all of us are super activated. And there's been a lot of events that have been activating in quick succession, meaning a lot of us are barely kind of coming down before the next one. And so I want to talk a little bit about that from, I don't want to say a coaching perspective, whatever you want to call it, because this is what I coach on, right?
So the activation, to me, is twofold. It's like the thoughts you're having about what's happening, it's usually some form of this shouldn't be happening. Oh my God, why is this happening? Nothing changes and those create a cascade of feelings. You described them perfectly: rage, anger, helplessness, sadness, right? I think a lot of us are like really, really sad and we're grieving.
In terms of when people are feeling activated, that to me is like, and I'm not a scientist like whatever, there's this other sort of system at play, I guess the best way to describe it is like our nervous system. It's more than just a fear response, it is like a fight or flight response because in medical school we learned fight or flight, but there's actually some other states. There's freeze and fawn. Are you familiar with that, Recha?
Recha: Yes, actually, I read about that, I think, in your book.
Bonnie: Okay, I don't go into much detail because it is a bit outside the scope of my expertise, but it is something I'm learning more about because it is important to understand that. Because based on your past life experiences, it doesn't have to be something super bad, if that makes sense, because we all interpret events differently.
And so if it was traumatizing to you, that means it was traumatic. It doesn't matter how big or little it was. And these events are traumatizing to most of us, so I think it's just important to understand that and to really take care of yourself during this time. And one of the things I recommend is actually to not watch the news and not go into these rabbit holes where you're Googling Google News, that's what I do anyway.
Not that you can't keep on top of what's happening, but I’d really limit it. And obviously, they want to push your buttons so that you donate, and all the news outlets are doing that too because their whole thing, you have to remember, is to get your attention, right? So it is like a form of dopamine to like watch it and be like, ah. But then every time you watch this, it just like re-traumatizes you every time.
So that's just something I want you all to think about in the context of because this won't be the last tragedy, right, the last tragedy. So I just think it's really important to like take care of yourselves and limit those inputs. Is there anything else you want to say about that, Recha?
Recha: I would say I totally agree about that. I would just add that when you are feeling all of those feelings and wanting to take steps and make changes, I would actually echo something that you've said before that really stuck with me when it comes to taking that next step and making a change. And that is when emotions are high, intelligence is low.
And so when you're feeling those emotions, giving yourself a beat, giving yourself that time to feel them, go through them. But then when you're going to take action, like we have to do as doctors, you know, when we're feeling very strongly when we're seeing a patient we can feel the emotions, we can feel the empathy, we can feel the compassion of things that are going on. But then we have to take a beat. And we have to be effective in the next steps to help that person.
It's the same way when you're trying to make a change in the world or dealing with a tragedy like this. You feel them and you need to take that beat before you can do something intelligently.
Bonnie: Yeah, that's one of my favorites. I didn't make up that quote when emotions are high, intelligence is low. But it's so true, right? If you're in this highly activated angry state it's not even, like rage giving, but it could be other things too, like you pick fights with people. I tend to do that and that's just something I need to notice about myself and give myself some grace when that happens.
Okay, so I want to talk more about how this is actually an amazing opportunity to take a step back and think about what organizations you want to support. And this is kind of what we talked about the first time I had you on the podcast because it does make donating top of mind, right?
Recha: Absolutely, absolutely. I think when you take that time and you do want to think through things, there are a lot of things to consider with where you want to put your money and where you want to make the most impact. And that's what I'm always talking about, is how you can really make the most impact that's really aligned with what you care about most.
And it might sound strange, but one of the ways that I do that is stopping and saying, well, what do I care about most? Why do I even care about this? Like, I don't know these people, but I really do care. And so giving yourself that time to think about what piece it is that you want to be involved in and how you want to give, how you want to impact.
Things do you want to be immediately helping the families that have suffered tragedies? Or do you want to be working on things like gun control, or the root causes or other issues that lead to gun violence? Or some combination of those? And that's kind of the first step, I think, is where do you want to make your impact.
Because these issues are so complex, there are so many things that go into something like gun violence, or any tragedies, like you said, there's going to be all kinds of other tragedies that are coming along. So when you kind of think about what part you want to have the most impact on, it helps you figure out where you want to direct your money.
Bonnie: I really love what you just said, how there's so many ways to help, you know, that we both think it's important for those of you who do want to make an impact. And what I love about working with mostly women physicians is that we have big hearts and we want to help, like that's why we want into medicine. We want to help everyone, that's just our nature.
And like what you said, there's so many ways to help and it is valuable to take the time to really think about what impact do I want? Like where do I want to help? Where do I want to impact? And there's no wrong way to donate. So let's talk about that for a second.
Recha: Absolutely, I agree, there is no wrong way to donate as long as it's a valid cause. There really isn't because at every step of the pathway, there's need, there are different forms of giving. So the immediate help, like if there has been an earthquake, the immediate help for the victims can be important, and so there's nothing wrong with that.
And if you want to think more about like maybe if there's climate change or environmental issues that you want to have as your kind of long-term impact, then that's good. Like anywhere you put your money in.
So for something as complex as gun violence, actually I think I was reading this morning about, it was in the New York Times, they were saying that since July 4th, which was four days ago, that most recent shooting in Chicago, there have been another 160 gun deaths in the US. So that's four days later.
So the mass shootings are one thing, but gun deaths are a big problem in the United States. And what they were talking about is the correlation with poverty and gun violence. So you could be focused on poverty or equity, and that would be helping, hopefully. There are so many different pathways in that the long-term goals might be all met with contribution at any step of the way. And there are needs every step of the way.
Bonnie: Absolutely, there are so many. It's complicated, right? It's not like if you fix this, then it'll be fixed, right? That's just not a thing. It would be great if that was true. I'm not an expert on gun violence and I know we're talking about that. And I'm also traumatized by the overturning of Roe versus Wade, we'll probably bring that up a few times.
I just love how you're saying it's complicated. It's not like, you know, I think a lot of sometimes when we're reacting to gun violence, the focus is on gun control groups. But there's so many factors that feed into it, not just on a government or legal level, but like you said, the equity level, the poverty level, and systemic racism, right?
They're all related and so I think, like I said, this is such an amazing opportunity for people to really think about what they want to focus on. And that can change over time, right? It doesn't matter what you focus on. And you don't have to focus on anything, but I know that most of you like to think about things intentionally, so this is really providing a framework for how you can do that.
Recha: One of the interesting things that I've seen, and it turns out there are some studies that back this up as well, is people say I want to make a difference, I want to help, I've just donated a bunch of money, now what can I do? And I think well, actually, you just did something but you feel like you didn't. So let's think about that for a minute.
And one of the things that I was listening to recently talked about if you are donating, if you are giving and you have a very specific goal and a specific idea, then you're more likely to feel like you've actually done something.
So it's that kind of like idea of what you've done. But if you take the time to think it through a little bit before you make your contribution, then you are more likely to feel empowered and to feel like, okay, I am helping.
Bonnie: Satisfied.
Recha: Satisfied, there you go. Exactly. And feel like you're doing what you want, you are helping, you are trying to make a difference and you can feel more effective and more like you're making an impact if you've actually thought it through. And then you won't say, I donated money but now what can I do? That’s part of it.
Bonnie: Yeah, and as you were saying that, what came to my mind is it's really easy to also feel overwhelmed that you're helpless and that you can't do anything. And so I think having that focus, then you're like, oh, well, this is what I want to focus on and make my impact.
But I think in the wake of events like this, it's really easy to kind of, A, because you're activated and your mind is all kind of, everyone reacts differently so I don't want to say this is for all of you.
But there was actually a day, just to share my experience, I think it was actually the Texas shootings. There was a day, I remember it was like most of the day where I literally couldn't think. And so I had postpartum anxiety, I don't consider myself an anxious person. I mean, maybe I am, I just don't think I am. I felt like my brain was spinning. It wasn't a panic attack, maybe that's what it was, I just don't know, I can't label it.
But I had a day where it was like that for me and it took me some time to realize what was happening, that I was having this like kind of a visceral reaction to things. And I just decided that I wasn't going to work that day. You know what I mean? And that's the beauty of me having a business. and even if I did have a job, I would have done my best to excuse myself for that day to really take care of myself and my body.
So having that focus, I think, is helpful. Not so much for the anxiety, I think you just have to, like you said, allow all of your reactions. And I think when we're so busy, it's easy to kind of think like, well, I don't have time to do this. I don't have time to focus on myself, I have to do something. And that's kind of what we do as women, right? We want to take care of everyone else before we take care of ourselves, right?
And so I love talking about this stuff. Anyway, what advice do you have for people just figuring out where they want to focus on? Is it as simple as just taking a beat and really thinking about where they want to make their impact? That's step one, right?
Recha: That's pretty much step one, is kind of finding your focus. That's where I like to start. And one of the things that I feel sometimes, and I think a lot of us probably can relate to this, is when all of this is happening it can be very overwhelming. And even just finding your focus can be very overwhelming.
So what I like to do is I like to take it back to kind of my personal most important things. And there's a very good chance that what you care about most is related in some way. And so whatever you care about most, if you move forward with it, it probably can end up helping in some way.
So for example, what I like to do is the question, if you could fix one thing in the world, what would it be? And when I think about those—
Bonnie: Give us an example.
Recha: So something like gender equity or protecting children. So those are things, like two of the things that come to me immediately.
So when I think of those, it makes it much easier when I think of something like protecting the children or helping children after there's been a tragedy. Or in terms of gender equity, having more women involved and empowered, what are the ways that we can do that? Because in areas where there are more women empowered, there tends to be fewer of these kinds of problems.
Bonnie: So are you saying women are going to save the world? Because that's what I believe.
Recha: So yeah, yeah.
Bonnie: I mean, it's obvious, right?
Recha: Clearly, clearly. Well, actually, I think there have been a lot of UN studies that the more empowered women are in different areas, the better off the community is.
Bonnie: I think I've heard that too, actually. I mean we know that, not to go totally off topic, that female doctors have better outcomes.
Recha: So yeah, so that's one of my lenses. And so that is one of the ways that I kind of view these kinds of things and it helps me focus on what things I might want to give money to and what my kind of long-term vision is.
And so once I have that, then my next step would be to look at the options, look at what I've given to in the past, look at what opportunities are showing up and really assess them before I hit the donate button. Like not just say, okay, that's it, I'm going to donate money to this, unless it's a group that I already know.
But again, to take a moment, and when I talk about taking a moment, I don't mean like this is going to be taking an hour, it'll probably take less time than it would to figure out the next purchase that you're going to make online. Just taking a moment to evaluate the charities, make sure that they're valid, and that they're in line with short-term and long-term goals and ideals.
Bonnie: Let's talk about how to find the right organizations because I know people are worried about fraudulent organizations. Unfortunately, there's always people who are going to take advantage of things, right? And let's talk about, because there's usually a lot of GoFundMe accounts. That's actually, you tell me, a source of fraudulent money, probably. So let's talk about that.
Recha: One thing that I thought was interesting that I found recently is apparently the funding for the IRS has gone down in terms of their vetting of charitable organizations. So there apparently has been an increase in fraudulent charity. So I think it's a really important thing to pay attention to. So they could already be in the IRS system as a valid charity, but not actually be valid.
Again, this is where I think it's really important to take a step and evaluate things. And I'll get back to the GoFundMe in just a minute. But what I like to do with a non-GoFundMe charity, but one that's actually set up as a charitable organization, is I usually do at least three steps.
One is just check to see that they're a valid charity. And often I'll use one of the bigger charity evaluation websites such as GuideStar to see that they're in good standing. But as we know, that's not necessarily always going to give you the full picture. The next thing I do is I put the exact wording in the exact order of the name of the charity in Google and just do a Google search with the name plus the word scam or fraud. And sometimes things will actually come up there.
Bonnie: That sounds so obvious, but...
Recha: Yeah, but it's amazing what actually comes up because a lot of these charities are, they use the same words maybe in a little bit of a different order, or with a couple of extra words. I'm trying to remember the most recent ones I saw were like ones that you know. Like, it was something like UNICEF, but in Ohio or something like that. It was a very big famous charity, but they had set it up with two extra words.
And so if you put the whole string in, then you would see that that one had been fraudulently set up.
Bonnie: Can I ask you a quick question before we move on to the next thing?
Recha: Of course.
Bonnie: Because this just reminded me how like you get those emails that are like from American Express, but they're really not. And sometimes they look real, although I often find that there's usually typos and weird things in there. Is that the same for these fraudulent charity sites? Like do they look fake and kind of like slapped up versus professional? You know what I mean?
Recha: That's a good question, and that was actually going to be the next point, is to go look at the websites and really dig into them. I haven't done a lot of digging on their websites, but if you do digging on valid charity, you can find things like they should have all their clear mission vision. They should have clear metrics of what they're trying to accomplish. And they should have an annual financial report or impact report.
And that's one of the big things that I look at, when I'm evaluating a charity, is to go back onto their website and look for an impact report or a financial report from the prior year, because they’ll be listing what they've accomplished. And it'll show me, one, it helps validate them, two, it shows me if it's really in line with what I would like them to be, you know what I would like my money to be going to.
Bonnie: Yeah, this is so important, like you said, because a lot of us do this reactive and rage giving and it's easy to not sort of do this and then give to the wrong place, right?
Recha: Yeah.
Bonnie: Anything else you want to say about that?
Recha: Well, to go back to your question on GoFundMe, this is something I don't have a lot of knowledge about in terms of potential fraudulent charities or things like that. But my personal take on that is if I know somebody directly, then I would consider doing a GoFundMe. If it is not somebody I know directly, then I don't do it.
And that's just kind of my kind of rule of thumb because I really want to make sure that the money I am putting out there goes to what I want it to be going to.
Bonnie: Yeah, because also with reactive giving, so I'm just going to give you guys an example. This was like local, so I don't know how much press it got in the US because I live in New Jersey, so the northeast. There was a really young boy in Connecticut, and maybe some of you guys remember this, he was set on fire by another kid. His face was set on fire.
And it just kind of captured the hearts of the Northeast and they had a GoFundMe page. I donated to that one, and they gave us updates pretty frequently and so I felt pretty good that it was actually legit. But I agree, it's like unless you know the person directly, it's really hard to know if it's legit because it's more common if you're a business facing person, but fake Facebook accounts, fake Instagram accounts pop up all the time.
Actually, I haven't had it happen to me, which maybe means I'm not famous enough. But they'll literally copy all the pictures you use for your Instagram and slap it up and it'll just say like, because my Instagram handle is Wealthy Mom MD so it might just be Wealthy Mom MD with like an extra dash, kind of like you were saying.
And so I could see how a GoFundMe account can easily be fake. And it's easier to do than set up a professional website, right? Because GoFundMe, it's like it's so easy to set up, so I think that's so important.
Going back to how we talked about how important it is to kind of take a beat, be intentional, really think about our values, where we want to help. The reason why that's so important, besides the stuff that you already said, is because then we're using our prefrontal cortex to make decisions. And what's unique about humans is we have one, which means we can think about our thinking and we can plan.
Because when you're in that reactive mode, it's kind of like it's activating your primitive brain system. And reactive giving makes sense, because it gives us a hit of dopamine that we're doing something. And just so we're clear, neither of us are saying you shouldn't do any reactive giving. Like it's not bad, so we're not saying that.
And I know that all of you want to be more intentional about your, I was going to say spending, donating. But it is spending, right? And doing that is, I don't want to use the word pleasure, it helps us feel empowered for the long-term.
Recha: Reactive giving is usually the easiest thing to do because you're probably inundated with asks. And reactive giving is generally also asks for small amounts, so it makes it easy to press that button over and over again. Like donate, yeah, I'm going to donate $5 to this, and I'm going to donate $10 to that, or I'll donate $100 to this. So that kind of reactive giving is very easy and it takes a little bit more effort to do the kind of intentional and planned giving.
Bonnie: Oh, I like how we're talking about it, the way we're talking about it. I just want to reiterate the motivational triad for those of you are like, what are they talking about? And so taking a step back, our brains are designed to keep us alive. I think we all know that on some level, but it's really important to understand this.
And so because its number one job is to keep us alive, and I think that makes sense, otherwise the human species would have died out, right? And so it's motivated by three things and I call it the motivational triad because it's three things. So one of them is it wants dopamine, it seeks pleasure.
It wants things to be easy, that’s what Recha was just talking about. And the reason why it wants things to be easy is it takes less energy. Because think about it, in the context of survival your brain wants to conserve energy in case it needs to have a flight response and literally run from impending death, right? And so it's always like, we want to conserve energy. And so it's always going to be immediately attracted to what's easy.
The third thing is to avoid pain, and this could be social and physical pain, also makes sense. And I also think that I never thought of it this way, but the reactive giving kind of like hits all three if you think about it. It's easy. It provides a little dopamine hit. And it relieves some of the pain we're feeling because we feel like we are helping them a little. I never thought of it this way but that makes sense to me. What do you think?
Recha: I totally agree.
Bonnie: I'll let you continue.
Recha: Okay, well, so I was just taking some notes while you were saying that because it's true, it's that quick fix for all three of them. But what I like to think of also for giving in terms of long game is, as physicians we know that sometimes it takes a really long time to get somewhere. It took us a long time to be practicing. It took us a long time to get through medical school and residency and all of that.
And if you want to make an impact on any of these issues that are showing up, any recent tragedies that are showing up, I think it's helpful to think of it as kind of that delayed gratification as well. That like long game, long view look at really being able to make an impact.
Bonnie: There's a few questions but I just wanted to make sure we kind of talked about everything you wanted to talk about.
Recha: I guess the last thing I want to say before we take questions is kind of the punch line, the bottom line is that a lot of these issues and a lot of where we got to today with all these tragedies is money is power. And we can like it or not, but there is power in money.
We've talked about this before, I would love for the people who are listening to this, the people who are learning from you, Bonnie, to be able to own that power. To be able to be good with it, to be able to feel good about making as much money as they want, and then to turn around and use their money powerfully.
And if that's donating, if that's impact investing, when that's spending. Whatever it is, when you turn around and use your money, that's where your power is. Your money is like the most powerful tool that you have to affect change in the world and I want to help give people the tools to use it powerfully. And for you to help them make a lot of it.
Bonnie: I think of money as it just amplifies who you are. I don't like putting people in categories good and bad, but for the purposes of illustration it works. If you have a big heart, more money is going to allow you to be more generous and to help more people. In fact, one of my business mentors from the past, he told me the more money you make, the more impact you can have.
And on the flip side, if there are people who don't have great hearts, more money is going to just magnify that. So money just magnifies who you already are. I know some people get offended when, not just me, but when people talk about how money is so important because in some ways it does suck that money is so important, and that the “bad” guys have more money. Like I said, I'm generalizing here.
And I think a lot of people ignore how important money is for these things. I call it a game and they get offended when I say that because people's lives are at stake and they don't consider that a game. So that's not what I'm saying. Money is really important to effect the change that we want to see. And to ignore that or to think it's not important is really short sighted.
Recha: I think it's also a bit unrealistic because that’s the way the world works.
Bonnie: Yeah, anyway, that's why I love talking about money. Okay, what questions? Let's see, how do we ensure that we are donating to reputable organizations that won't squander donations or funnel into admin salaries?
So we did answer that, but is there anything you want to say that maybe we didn't get a chance to say about that?
Recha: I would like to point out that a lot of the comparison sites talk about admin salary and use that as kind of a proxy for effectiveness. And I really don't buy into that and I think it can be really misleading.
If you think about the different kinds of medical practices that are out there, if you have a dermatology clinic that might have some expensive machinery and need very specialized help, they might have a different kind of clinic that doesn't require the same kind of things.
So I don't think it's for me to say or for people to really judge an organization by the amount they need for their administration or for the work they do. I think that they should be evaluated more on their impact and their outcomes. It's a little bit misleading to think about that the funds are being squandered.
Bonnie: Yeah, no, this is actually a great talking point. And I also want to tie it back to the brain stuff we've been talking about is, when you are in reactive giving mode, then you're not going to have time to make these evaluations.
I don't think I actually introduced you in the beginning. So tell us exactly how you help people because obviously, you know so much about this. So tell us more about what you do and how you help people.
Recha: I founded the Physician Philanthropist because I wanted to help doctors be more impactful with their giving, but also with any way that they put their money out. So with their investments and spending as well.
I do have a few online courses, self-paced courses that have a lot of the things that we've discussed and a lot in a little bit more depth about specifics in terms of how to donate effectively. And a new course on impact investing.
So I have online courses. I also have a blog, and I'm just saying all my stuff out there as well in the social media, so I'm on Facebook and Instagram as Physician Philanthropist. And I'm open to anybody's questions or if anyone wants to get in touch with me, I'm always open to that.
Bonnie: I appreciate you so much for doing this kind of last minute. Basically what happened is I saw Recha’s article in Kevin MD and I was like, we need to talk about this. And it just happened to work out that we could do this pretty last minute with our schedules. And so I really appreciate that you are talking about this because I think this is going to be so helpful for so many people.
We basically provided a framework on how to think about this and the difference between intentional giving versus reactive giving. And I know that many of my audience wants to give intentionally, they want to make an impact. And so I think it's so important to really think through how you want to give.
And here's the last thing I want to say that came to mind as we were talking is, I don't want to say these tragedies are opportunities but you might realize that you really want to help in a certain way. And to use these events to really take the time to think about it, I think that's what I mean by a great opportunity. I don't mean anything otherwise.
So I'm hoping that all of you learned a lot about this or learned a lot from this conversation and that it'll help you make more intentional decisions about where you want to give. And I think that's it.
Recha: Thank you so much for having me.
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117: Roe v Wade: What the Patriarchy Doesn’t Want You to Do
I recently got back from an amazing two-day in-person event with my mentor, and I was originally going to share some of the biggest takeaways from my trip. While I know you’re going to get so much value out of that, you’ll be hearing all about it next week because there’s something more pressing on my mind that we need to have a conversation about.
If you’ve been following me for any length of time, you’ll know that I’m all about empowering women, including women making and having lots of money. Like many of you listening, I am not okay with the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v Wade. This is just one way the patriarchy is trying to keep women small, and we’ve come way too far to let this slide. But how did this critical moment in history come to fruition?
As women entrepreneurs, we are mission and heart-driven people who love making money for different reasons. We are also a critical mass of women who are not going down without a fight. And this week, I’m showing you why, now more than ever, it’s so important for women to make money, and the role money plays in the equation of keeping women playing small.
If you're ready to take control of your money and practice medicine on your terms, you need to check out Money for Women Physicians. Click here to learn more!
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
- My thoughts on the decision to overturn Roe v Wade.
- Why it takes courage to have important conversations about what matters to us.
- How you are already a part of the solution to this crisis.
- Why we all need a safe space for asking questions and learning.
- How money is a huge part of the equation that has led to laws and decisions that don’t make sense.
Listen to the Full Episode:
Featured on the Show:
- Learn more about Money for Women Physicians where you'll learn the tools to make practicing medicine OPTIONAL.
- Follow me on Instagram
- 49: The History of Women and Money
- National Network of Abortion Funds
- Planned Parenthood Action Fund
Welcome to the Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it, and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level your money and your life. I’m your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.
Hey everyone, so originally I was going to talk about takeaways from my weekend in Denver, Colorado. I just came back, well I guess a few days ago at this point from Denver, Colorado. I was at a two day in-person event with one of my beloved mentors and coaches, Brooke Castillo, and I’m definitely going to talk about that. And we need to talk about what’s been happening in the US lately.
And so this won’t come out for another probably around two weeks after Roe versus Wade was overturned and I wanted to talk about it a little bit. So in case it wasn’t obvious I’m not okay with this. And what I mean by obvious is if you’ve been following me for a while I’m all about women doing what they want, empowering them, including making and having lots of money.
And my reasons for wanting to do this have changed over the years, or more like things have been added to it. In some ways I feel like my purpose is getting clearer and clearer, and now more than ever I feel like it’s so, so, so important for women to want to make money. And I want to talk about that today.
But first I want to talk about some non-money stuff. Now, I actually was on the plane, like literally in the air on my way to Denver when this happened. And obviously I was, actually I was kind of in denial, I’m like, “This is not really happening.” I was incredibly disappointed, sad, angry, and hopeless. All the things.
And I was bit distracted being in Denver and it was kind of an all-day thing, I was with some really good friends of mine, entrepreneur friends of mine. And of course we talked about it, we were all bitching about it and we were all there for a specific thing and so now that I’m back I’ve had some time to sort of think about.
And I have been really activated by this and I’m just guessing that many of you are probably in that same boat. And when it first started I was on the social medias Instagramming, Facebooking, ranting a little bit. And now I’ve taken some time to really think about this and what I’ve done is to actually really decrease how much I’m reading and watching online and on TV to help sort of me collect my thoughts. And so if you’re feeling anxious and activated I would suggest that for you as well.
And here are my thoughts about what’s going on. They, and when I say they I meant those people, the people that support the patriarchy who want to reduce women to less than men, basically, right? The patriarchy. And the patriarchy includes women too, by the way. It’s not just carried out by men. They want us to be hopeless. They want us to feel like we can’t do much about it.
And in fact I think it’s really easy for that to happen. I think it’s really easy for us to see this as, I was going to say as something really bad, but really denial is what I want to say. And that’s what they really want. They want us to focus our attention to certain things. Now, of course, these are just my thoughts and opinions, take them or leave them.
And I love the outpouring of support in all the forms, writing letters, calling members of congress, the senate, et cetera, protesting, donating to all of the amazing groups out there that are going to make sure the women who want and need abortions can get them safely and have that support.
Because it’s one thing to get an abortion and it’s whole ‘nother thing to get that mental support that they’re going to need because listen, nobody gets an abortion for the freaking fun of it. That’s a whole ‘nother discussion but that’s like simply not true and I think that’s what a lot of these one, I can’t think of the name but you guys know what I’m talking about, the folks who tend to vote just based on one point, AKA abortion.
Anyway, I believe that we have a critical mass of women that are not going to go down without a fight. Me being one of them, you being one of them. We have come way too far to let this be okay. It is not okay.
For sure this is not fake, meaning Roe versus Wade has been overturned by the Supreme Court. States have already banned abortion, although in some states they’re really trying to delay things and resist so to speak. I think all of the abortion providers, OB/GYNs, the nursing staffer, everyone that is going to do whatever they can to give the care that I know they want to give.
And I also want to say, what I've seen is so many of us, we want to feel like we can do something. And here's what I want to say about that, you probably have already done something. I think donating is a great way and there's so many great places. And I'll link in the show notes some of the funds that I have become aware of or the organizations, I know abortion funds is one of them, but there are a few others. So I'll put those in the show notes.
And here's what I want to say, you are already part of the solution. Here's how I know, even if you and I have never met, because this is what I know about the women and men who listen to my podcast. You are someone who has gone after what they want and accomplished things that our female ancestors couldn't even dream of or think of it being possible.
You have to remember that our rights as women when it comes to money has only recently been granted to us. I've done a whole series on the history of women and money, and if you haven't listened to those I highly recommend you do that. Also, if you're listening to this podcast you are someone that someone else looks up to, for sure. Even if you're thinking that it’s not true, it is for sure true.
You are an example of what's possible to another woman, to another girl. And or maybe you're someone who takes care of other women, this could be as a physician, this could be as a mother, this could be as a daughter, that's just what we do as women, we take care of other people. You're donating to help women get abortions. You're thinking about this. And there's so many other things about you just being, just existing that makes you part of the solution.
So if you're feeling hopeless or you're wanting to do something and you don't know what to do, I would say first thing is to definitely donate to abortion funds and some of the other funds that we’ll link in the show notes. And continue being you unapologetically because here is what I believe, Roe versus Wade is just one way they're trying to keep women small.
And the reason why this is such a critical moment in our history is because if we let this happen, what else are they going to do? I think a lot of us take our rights as women, I don't think we take them for granted, but we take some of the things for granted. Meaning we couldn't imagine being told that we need a man’s signature to open a credit card, except that was the case until 1974.
And overturning Roe versus Wade, what else are they going to want to do? They have already been talking about this, right? I'm not a legal expert, I don't follow all the things but I've heard some rumblings about maybe even prosecuting women who leave the state to do an abortion. Or what is that state, is it Ohio or Texas that like citizen’s arrest is like a thing? I mean it's all sorts of crazy already happening and things like overturning gay marriage.
And so it's so important for all of us to stay a part of the conversation. You know, I just had a conversation with a really good friend of mine, a man, and pro-choice all the things and he wanted to run something by me. And first I just wanted to say I'm so glad he felt safe enough to run this question by because here's what I’ve found, everyone, including me, we need a safe space where we can learn and ask questions and not feel shamed. And so I just want to commend this friend, I don't know if you're listening or not, for thinking that I would be a safe place to have this discussion with.
Anyway, long story short, he was asking me some nuances about viability, like when is that cut off? When is it not really murder? And he is a dear friend of mine so I knew he didn't understand why he was asking that question. Except I did get upset and I told him, I said I'm getting really upset because that is the wrong thing to focus on. I was like that is exactly what they want you to focus on, viability, so that it's a distraction from the real issue, which is control of women.
So that conversation ended up really showing him what this is actually all about and he thanked me. He's like, the light bulb went off in my head, I get it. And then he said he's incredibly sad and disappointed about what's happening. And so this is why we need to be willing to have these conversations and be as calm as possible, I know it's not always possible.
But part of our work is to have as many allies on our side, and not just men, but other women, and especially men. And sometimes we're going to have these conversations, maybe we'll post something on our social media or maybe you’ll have a conversation with a friend and it's not going to go well. It takes courage to have these conversations, it really does because these are charged topics.
And as someone whose voice is listened to on the podcast, who emails my email list of several thousand people, who posts on social media that's read by thousands of people, I for sure have pissed people off. I for sure have gotten it wrong. And the fear of doing that used to really, really stop me. I'd be so afraid of saying the wrong thing, but at the same time I stunted my learning, and also the privilege of me being able to use this platform to talk about things that matter dearly to my heart.
And also, part of the whole reason why I even have this platform, this business, I have a business, I'm an entrepreneur, is that it’s purpose. I would say all of my entrepreneur friends, I was going to say all entrepreneurs, but I can't speak for all of them. But I would say all the entrepreneurs that I'm friends with, we are all mission and heart driven. And yes, we all love making money and all of us do it for different reasons.
And here's the thing, you don't really need a reason to make money, that's a whole ‘nother conversation. But I think if you don't have a compelling reason for you, and it's going to be different for all of us, you're going to quit because what is required to create the kind of wealth that most people want, takes something. And so you need something to hold your hand when you're walking through the fire, so to speak.
So anyway, I'm getting off on a little tangent here. But bringing it back to why I'm even bringing this up is, as time has gone on I've really been fired up by a lot of things. I've been fired up by this. I mean, I went to an all-women’s school, I went to Barnard College, I'm a feminist. And I've also been really, really affected by the recent mass shootings, or you know, all them that have been happening for many years. And then a light bulb went off in my head about what I can do about it besides donating.
And here's something that I found a lot of people, I should say, well, not a lot of people, but people tend to get offended when I talk about this, but I'm going to talk about it anyway. How do you think this happened? This meaning Roe v. Wade being overturned. And if you are someone who's passionate about gun control, how do you think we got to this place where we can't implement common sense gun control?
It's because those people have more money than the other side. Now, the reason why people get mad when I say this is because they'll say things like, well, we need more people to do things. This is true, we need boots on the ground. We need people willing to run for office. There's so many things part of this, and they need a lot of money.
How do you think those justices were put into their seats? They were put in place by people who were elected, by people who helped them. I mean, I was going to say how many layers does it go? But you get the point, people help people help people get elected, who then became president, who then put these judges in place. I mean it just goes round and round and round.
And how do you think that all happened? Money was a big part of the equation. Listen, money doesn't solve everything, it solves a lot of problems. You need money to help the people that we want to get elected to office to actually change the laws. And that's what I want to focus on, personally. And that might change in the future, but what I do know is that my clients go on to make more money. And all the clients I work with have big, amazing hearts. They love doing good in the world and they know they can do more good if they have and make more money.
I got a comment that if I really cared, that I should give seminars for free and work in shelters for single women, and that we need to help all women. And this is just one example, I'm kind of paraphrasing things. And comments shaming me for wanting to make money in general and then also talking about my programs to buy during this time.
And that's okay. People always have opinions about what a woman should do or not do, how they should spend their time, whether they get paid or not. And honestly those comments just kept feeding my fire that why I do what I do, why I'm even here on this planet. This is my purpose for now, that might change over time.
And I want all of you to not just have and make all the money, super fun, I also want you to feel like you're able to make the difference that you want. That you're not going to play small, that you are going to feel or have the courage to voice your opinions because this is exactly what the patriarchy doesn't want you to do.
All right, well, thanks for listening to my rant and I'll be back next week with some amazing takeaways from my two days with Brooke Castillo.
Hey, if you're ready to create wealth, I want to invite you to join my program Money For Women Physicians. You'll join a community of like-minded women physicians who are committed to creating wealth. Just head over to wealthymommd.com/money to learn more.
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I’m bringing you something slightly different this week in the form of a podcast interview I did over on The Investor Mama Podcast. I had a brilliant conversation with host Jen Narciso about my business journey, money mindset, and the struggles high-income earners experience when it comes to money.
As you know, I’m super passionate about helping women make lots of money. We not only want to set ourselves up for a comfortable, or even luxurious life, but we also want to be financially secure for the future. So, we think the goal is to just make more and more money. However, just because we have more money doesn’t mean we will automatically know what to do with it, or that we’ll even feel good about it.
Join Jen and I this week as we dive into my top tips for high-income earners struggling with their relationship to money. I’m sharing the history of my business trajectory and how I transitioned into educating on money full-time, why more money isn’t the solution to feeling secure, and why investing in your mind is so important.
If you're ready to take control of your money and practice medicine on your terms, you need to check out Money for Women Physicians. Click here to learn more!
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
- How I transitioned from working full-time in dermatology to educating women on money.
- What my first year in business looked like.
- The money mindset blocks I had to work through as my income grew.
- Where I invest my money, and how it’s changed over time.
- Why more money isn’t the solution to feeling insecure.
- The most common struggles many people have with their relationship to money.
- How to make your money work for you.
- Why investing in your mind is so important.
Listen to the Full Episode:
Featured on the Show:
- Learn more about Money for Women Physicians where you'll learn the tools to make practicing medicine OPTIONAL.
- Follow me on Instagram
- The Investor Mama Podcast: Website | Instagram | Facebook
- The White Coat Investor by James M Dahle MD
- I Will Teach You to Be Rich by Ramit Sethi
- Investor Mama Podcast Ep #56: How this Mom of 5 Earns Passive Income Through Real Estate with Camilla Jeffs from Steady Stream Investments
- Corinne Crabtree
- Atlas of the Heart by Brené Brown
- The Antiracist Business Book by Trudi Lebron
Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it, and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level your money and your life. I’m your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.
Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. So today you're going to be listening to a conversation that I had with Jen Narciso. I'm probably pronouncing her name wrong, sorry, Jen. She is the host of the Investor Mama Podcast. And so we had such a lovely conversation and I knew that you would all enjoy listening to it too and so I asked her if I could have the audio to the podcast and she was happy to do so.
So we talk about a lot of things, we talk about my book, my business journey, and we just talk a lot about how just because you have money doesn't mean you know what to do with it. And as you know, I'm so passionate about helping all the women make all the money, but we have to stop feeling crappy about ourselves in order to do that.
And somehow we think that just because we make a lot of money that we should automatically know what to do with it. And one of the things I said in this episode with Jen is that now you just have more money that you don't know what to do with. So we talk about that and so many other things.
And I also love that she is also a woman talking about money and has a podcast and she has some amazing resources. So maybe her podcast is a podcast that you will recommend to your friends. Okay, so here it is without further ado.
Jen: Welcome to the Investor Mama Podcast, money conversations with a mom’s touch. Your host, Jen Narciso, interviews amazing guests each week to help you become educated, be inspired by other money stories, and stay motivated on your own wealth building journey. No matter where you are financially, whether you're in debt or financially free, this podcast is for you. Now sit back and enjoy
Welcome back to the Investor Mama Podcast, money conversations with a mom’s touch. I'm your host, Jen Narciso, and I am super excited for this week's episode, I have the pleasure of bringing on Bonnie Koo, Wealthy Mom MD.
And the reason why I'm so pumped about this is because so many people often think that depending on what your income level is, that if you just make more, you just make more, you'll be financially set. And that's really not the case. And so I'm really excited to share Bonnie's story.
She's a physician, she's a mom, she's doing all the things. She makes an amazing income and she's teaching other women how to do the same. Bonnie, welcome to the show. How you doing today?
Bonnie: Hey, thanks so much for having me.
Jen: Thanks so much for coming on. So why don't we just jump in? Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and a little bit about your money story?
Bonnie: Yeah, happy to do that. I'm so excited about our conversation, by the way, it's going to be so good. So I am a physician, like you said, I'm a dermatologist by training although I haven't practiced in two years because I do my business full-time now. But obviously, there was a story in the beginning.
So I didn't know anything about money growing up. Of course I knew a few things, I had a job during high school so I was making money, putting it. So it's not like I was totally, like didn't know what was going on. But I didn't really pay attention to it and no one taught me anything. I'm sure you hear that all the time because it's not a part of school, even though it should be.
And as I was finishing up my residency training, so just in case your audience doesn't know, so after medical school we do residency and that could be anywhere between, I guess one year technically to like 10 years. And so mine was, I don't even remember, it was like maybe like three or four years, whatever, it wasn't like 10 years.
And so residents generally make around $50,000 across the US, it's a little different depending on where you are. But that's the general range of what residents make. And then when you finish residency and you “make it” into like a real doctor your income can skyrocket and it's a huge range.
So I don't mind talking about numbers, so I went from making, it was more like 46,000 a year to my first job I was making 260K base, and then I could bonus. So I was making around 300K after bonuses, which is actually on the lower end for dermatologists. To give some context most dermatologists make, well at least 350, 400, 500, whatever. So I just wanted to lay down that context.
So basically it was my last year of residency and I was like, “I don't know anything about money, maybe I should learn.”
Jen: So that’s basically what happened.
Bonnie: I was looking at job contracts, and I knew I was going to make more money but I was like, I probably need to learn some stuff so I know what to do with it. Plus, I don't think I really understood how much more taxes I would pay, right? Because the more money you make, the more taxes you pay, right? And it's kind of obscene, but whatever.
So I ended up getting a book, The White Coat Investor, do you know who that is?
Jen: Yeah.
Bonnie: So he's a physician that educates physicians and other high income professionals. And basically, some coworkers were like, “Why don't you read his book? It's a good intro.” So I bought it on Amazon, you know, got it the next day. I read it all in one day, it's a pretty quick read, I read it in a few hours on a Saturday, I remember. And I was like, whoa.
Jen: Mind blown.
Bonnie: When I say, whoa, I just mean like I didn't know this. And I just feel like my eyes were opened to all things finance, you know, I think everyone has that sort of, unless your parents educated you. And I'm one of those people that once I am interested in something, I just kind of go all in and go into a rabbit hole, basically.
So I learned a lot of things very quickly. And I didn't know this at the time, Jen, I understood it. Like it made sense to me, I didn't have trouble understanding it. And I'm not saying I'm like more brilliant than other people, but as I started to talk more about it and teach other physicians, I just noticed that people tend to have a block from learning it.
They feel like they don't understand it, it seems really overwhelming, which is kind of like horse shit because they're doctors, you know what I mean? They had to learn really complex stuff. So that, I think, is just a mindset block.
And so but I learned it really quickly and I was interested in it. And when I started just talking about it, not on any sort of platform, just in Facebook groups to educate people, I was just answering people's questions because I knew the answers. And then I would quickly see, it became apparent that I was the one commenting the most, maybe not the most, but I was knowledgeable compared to like the other people.
And I'm going to try to like make it shorter now. But basically, someone's like, “You should start a blog.” And I was confused when they suggested that because this was just like, you know, not for fun, but to me it was just like a fun thing to do on the side, not getting paid for it and I didn't have a problem with that. And so I actually have a background in tech, in IT, that was my job for four years before med school.
So the idea of creating a website and getting all that tech done was not a problem for me. So I set up a blog, started making money from day one because back then I think blogs were all about affiliates and sponsors, at least that was one model. So I actually was able to find sponsors easily because I was already recommending insurance agents. And so they were happy to sponsor me and I charged like, whatever, 50 bucks, 100 bucks a month, something nominal.
And then time went on and I started getting asked to speak. In fact, I actually spoke at the first White Coat Investor Conference, this was back in 2018. And then I just got asked to speak more because I think more and more doctors were noticing that this was important to learn. So there's just been a lot more awareness and a demand to have some education in the form of a lecture, nothing like some curriculum but just like having guest speakers do a lecture on it.
So that was happening, getting asked to speak. Still I was like, this is fun. And yeah, I made a little money here and there, right? But as a physician I was like, it's not like I was like I need a side gig to make more money, it just didn't cross my mind.
And then I started working with a life coach. And it was life coaching, but then also a bit of business coaching, because at some point, have you been to FinCon?
Jen: Yes, yes. It’s amazing, that’s what actually helped me launch this podcast.
Bonnie: Yeah, so I was going to FinCon and there was all these physician educators in money, bloggers, et cetera. And yeah, just it was fun. It's fun, right? It's fun to meet people who are also into money and we can like nerd out a little bit, right? And you make all these connections and they’re wonderful.
And basically at one of the FinCons, after one of the FinCons I just decided, hey, let's actually do this as a real business. And people always ask, well, how did you decide? I think I just was like, decide, I just decided. I just was like, let's just do this and if it doesn't work out, who cares? I'm a doctor. That was my mindset around it, to me it wasn't risky to do. Does that make sense?
Jen: Yeah. And you already had such a stable income. Well, let me ask you this, at that point though did you have a security, like a nest egg or emergency fund that you felt confident enough to really take the pivot?
Bonnie: That's a good question. I don't remember the specifics of my financials at the time but by that time, while this was all happening, I was doing things like, I worked for a large hospital, I was maxing out my 403B, which is like a 401K. And they offered something called a 457B which is just another pot of money pretax. So I was maxing out both, which was like 18K each. I was funding Roth IRAs. So I was investing money.
I don't remember if I was building up a nest egg. I mean, I'm assuming I did, because I know at some point I had a sizable amount in a regular brokerage account. So probably that was just all happening on the side because I was able to do that with the income I was making. And my apartment wasn't like 10K a month or anything crazy like that, although it was New York City, so it was more expensive than the rest of the country.
Where was I? Oh, the business decision. So yeah, I just was like, why not? And then the coach challenged me to make some goals, right, because It's good to have some goals otherwise you're kind of not taking it seriously. And this is actually something I see a lot, because I'm sure some of your listeners have side gigs and stuff. I think it's really easy, if you do have a job, no matter how much you're making in the job, I think it's really easy to not take your business seriously.
Jen: Yeah.
Bonnie: You know what I mean because you’re like I don't have to take it seriously because I have a job. But I didn't do that, I really took it seriously, whatever that means, right? So that's my story. And there's more, but I'm sure we'll talk about it.
Jen: Yeah, no, I love that. So let me ask you this though, because you're making a very high income at this point. When you started to transition to the business, what were some of your initial goals? And how did you find the time to even really, you said you went hard in it in the beginning, but you're a doctor, that's not the easiest profession. And I know it could be very time consuming, so kind of how did you juggle everything?
Bonnie: Yeah, so let me preface this that as a dermatologist, I worked four days a week. And that's pretty common, that's considered full time and derm. Other doctors work five days, six days, seven days a week, but not in my specialty. And I worked pretty regular hours, I think it was like 7:30 to 4 or something like that. So just to preface that.
So in my mind I did have time to work on it. Plus, I really loved working on it, so it didn't seem like work. So I think there was that. And when I first started it was just blog posts, which at least in my mind wasn't that hard to do in terms of writing. It wasn't hard for me to write and I would spit them out pretty quickly.
But at some point I did stop working full time and I switched to something called locums, which basically is like short-term assignments to fill in for a doctor or if there's a temporary need. It's kind of like a, there's a word for that, what is it? But there's a word, anyway, whatever.
Jen: Yeah, whatever the word is.
Bonnie: I’m sure people know what it is. But yeah, basically, it's like short-term, it's not like a permanent job, right? So I actually switched to that and it happened to be two weeks on, two weeks off. And I started doing that when I actually created my first online course. Do you have a course by the way?
Jen: Not yet, I'm in the process of figuring it out. I'm a real estate agent now too, and so that's just been taking up too much of my time with the podcast, it’s hard to juggle.
Bonnie: Yeah, so you’ve got a lot on your plate. So actually my coach mentioned, because she was also learning all the stuff about online biz, she's like, “You know you can just sell the course without having made it?” And I was like, what?
It’s called pre-selling. And you have to know what you're going to teach, but you don't actually have to have the course done in terms of having all these videos made and blah, blah, blah. She's like, and you just release it one module at a time, like one a week. So you just have to create it in small chunks.
And I was like, this is brilliant. And the reason why it's brilliant is if no one buys it or if it's clearly not something people want to buy, you haven't spent all this time making it. Does that make sense?
Jen: Yeah.
Bonnie: But you have to like think about it and have an outline in mind. So, yeah, that's how I found the time because I did have time.
Jen: And when you first started though, how much success did you have? Because it seems like you did go off with a bang and that you were creating money, even if it was a little bit, you still started making it. And how did you gradually get to a point where you're like, okay, I feel good enough to leave my job and really do this hard full time?
Bonnie: Yeah, so I think the first step in any online business is you have to have an audience. People need to know who you are et cetera, so that's marketing. But I had mentioned that I was answering people's questions in a Facebook group, so I was already, I kind of had a following because of that. And I was kind of the only female doctor at the time doing education for physicians.
Now, that's not the case anymore because now it's just, like I said, demand is so high. So basically, when I offered the program, a lot of people bought it. And I called it the founding members group, I offered it at a lower price than I charge today.
And so actually you had asked me before like how much did I make? So when I wasn't taking it seriously, I was making money. Like I think I made like 7,000 the first year, that's when I started my blog. The second year I made like 37,000. That was from a combo of sponsorships and speaking fees. And I worked with the, I started with the coach at the end of that 37K year. And so she did ask me, like let's make a goal for 2019. Yeah, 2019, I’m getting the years mixed up, the pandemic is like, you know what it’s like.
Jen: I know the pandemic just messed up the whole world.
Bonnie: It just blends, yeah. So I was like, hey, let's do 100K because that sounds nice, right? Six figures. I think that's like a milestone for many business owners in online biz. And you know what she said? She's, like, not high enough. And I was like what are you talking about? I was so confused because I'm thinking, hey, this is a great goal and it's more than double than my previous year.
And this is what she said, which I think is so important. She said, if you pick 100K you're just going to have to do more of the same. You know, get more sponsors, charge higher prices. And she's like, there's nothing wrong with that. But since you want to create a business, she's like, you have to pick at least 200K because that will force you to do something different, like create a course.
Jen: I love that.
Bonnie: And I was like, okay.
Jen: It’s like the fear set in, like oh my goodness.
Bonnie: Well, also I agreed to it, right? Because some people would have been like, eff that I'm not doing that, right? But I kind of was like I hired, it just didn't cross my mind to disagree. And I was like, okay, I'll pick 200 because that's the minimum that you said I could do. You know what I mean? And so I did end up creating a course. And I did make, I made 207K that year.
Jen: Which is almost close to what you were making as a physician.
Bonnie: Yeah, so at that point I actually changed jobs and I was making 300 at the time. But as you know, income in a business is not what you take home, right?
Jen: Yeah, that's true. That's true.
Bonnie: Yeah, because there's overhead and et cetera. So that was my first real year in business.
Jen: So you're making a very strong income, what is your mindset around money at this point? Because in the beginning you didn't really know, it seems like you were getting yourself educated. Before we talk about clients, but did you personally still have any obstacle like money blocks or anything that even with this high income you're like, it's not enough, I need more, or like what’s next?
Bonnie: Totally because just because you make a lot of money doesn't mean that you feel secure. And I think people think that because they think secure equals a certain number of the bank. And I definitely believed that too. And what I’ve found is that's just not true because secure is, it comes from the inside, you know?
But I've worked on a lot of those blocks, I still have blocks because we're always a work in progress. And it's not even so much, I don't think I was consciously thinking I need more, I need more. But actually, here's the thing, this is actually something I was working with a coach, I actually got coached today by a coach. I overspend or I love spending money and interestingly, I haven't really worked on that consciously since whatever, since I started this.
Jen: Because you always made, you had a good income, it’s like why not? You can do it.
Bonnie: Exactly. I didn't really have a real, like there was no, like I wasn't bankrupt, I wasn't spending more, I was paying my credit cards in full. You know, there was no dire reason to work on it. But in the past year it's become more of a problem, mainly in my business, but also in my personal finance. Again, I'm not broke or bankrupt so I could probably still ride this out. But literally today I decided this is something I want to work on.
So that's a long way of me saying that more money didn't make me happier. I was able to do some things, so it's not like it sucked to have more money. I went on nicer vacations, like I remember in college and maybe residency I would stay at lower priced places and hostels, I mean, things like that, and I don't do that anymore. So yeah, that's definitely a nice perk.
Jen: Yeah, so why do you think that is though? And I know we kind of talked offline a little bit and you said you found that a lot of clients you work with, because you work with high income earners as well. So these aren't people making the 50 to 100K, they're making more of the two to 300 range. Why do you think so many people, even with the money, still struggle with it?
Bonnie: Yeah, because they have this, and this is what I call a thought error. They have this thought error where they think, and it's not just them, I think it's also the public, that if you have money, you know what to do with it. And that's just not true. You just have more of it to not know what to do with it. It's not like having money suddenly educates you. Does that make sense?
Jen: Yeah, 100%.
Bonnie: It's not like you get a chip when you make 200K in your brain that tells you how to do everything.
Jen: You just have a lot more room to mess up.
Bonnie: No, totally. Not only that, I think higher earners who don't know anything about money, which I don't know the percentage but it's really high. I think they also have some shame around it like, oh, I should know because I make a lot of money. But whenever a client comes to me that that question I'm like, but how would you know?
Jen: Yeah, that's my whole thing too.
Bonnie: Like how would you know? It's like if no one taught you, then of course you don't know.
Jen: Yeah.
Bonnie: And more money isn't going to fix that.
Jen: In fact, it could make it worse in some instances.
Bonnie: Yeah, you'll just maybe get more scared because now you have more of it and you're more afraid of screwing it up.
Jen: Do you actually, that made me think of something, do you think that people also with a lot of money have the fear of not enjoying life? Because I feel like there's this weird balance of save, save, save, save, save. And then actually, when you do get to a point it's like, okay, we are only in life, we have one life to spare.
And especially now as a mom I kind of struggle with this too a little bit. Like when is it okay to kind of keep your foot off the pedal and say, okay, maybe it is worth it to spend a little bit more on the vacation to really create the memories? Or when is it okay to indulge on this? Or whatever it is, like more mommy and me dates that end up adding up if you go out every week, things like that.
Because it's so easy also to be so stringent, especially when you make a lot of money that, and I know Ramit Sethi talks a lot about this as a concept of splurge on what you enjoy and what you value, but then tight on everything else. But I still feel like there's, for the other end too it's really tough to let go.
Bonnie: Yeah, such a great question. So I think there's a tendency, and you said it beautifully, where you tend to do extremes. I know your podcast listeners can't hear me, but I have my sort of hands up like it's kind of like you're either on the extreme end of need to save, save, save, and not enjoy that spend money. And then the other extreme is, what's the word?
Jen: YOLO.
Bonnie: Just spend, spend, spend. YOLO, yeah, you only live once and you don't want to die with money, what's the point? There's that other extreme and it’s like what's in the middle? So I don't have a set prescription of how to spend money, it's just more like you want to think intentionally about what you want to do with your money, like goals, just have an idea. And that's going to change over time.
But I think with my audience, and this is what I do personally is like, I want to make my money work for me that doesn't use my brain or direct time and effort. That's what investing is, right? Like real estate, stock market. And I do want to spend money and enjoy it. And what I have found is a lot of people have trouble, I don't think people have trouble spending money for the most part. But I think people have a hard time enjoying it.
Jen: Yeah, that's a better way, that they feel guilty for spending.
Bonnie: Yeah, they'll spend it, have a nice vacation, but then they might feel guilty about it or maybe they don't. So I work with my clients a lot on tackling that aspect of it. Because, and we talked about this offline, if you can't enjoy the money you have now, you're not going to suddenly enjoy it when you have a lot more.
And I had said offline that when I first started this journey I was kind of obsessed with crunching numbers to find out what is my financial independence number, which is based on the 4% rule. And I knew that I wanted to have a good lifestyle because I see a lot of physicians or maybe high income earners living well now, but then they're like, oh, but I don't need as much for retirement or things like that. And I'm just like, why not?
I really believe you can make as much money as you want. Not everyone wants that, but I think a lot people don't even give themselves the option. So I was crunching these numbers and I was getting depressed, quite frankly, because I really want to have at least 200K or more income in retirement. And that would mean I’d need, what, 5 million? Whatever the math is.
Jen: Yeah, can you just share what the 4% rule is for someone who may not know?
Bonnie: Yeah, so basically the 4% rule is for every million dollars you have in retirement, and this is kind of the assumption that it’s invested in the stock market, you can take out 4% a year. So basically, for every million dollars, it's $40,000. And obviously that money is taxed, right?
So I was like, okay, if I want 200K of income, gross income, then I need at least $5 billion. And I was doing the math, and what's beautiful about compound interest is it accelerates, like once you have a million dollars it just skyrockets in terms of how fast it grows. So it's not like a linear thing. So I knew that but I think in my mind, kind of like this extreme thinking, well, I can't quit working or I can't go part time until I hit that 5 million.
That's kind of where my mind was. And I think a lot of people think that like, oh, I can't really, and I wasn't thinking I can't enjoy life. But I was obsessed with retiring as if like I was going to be happier.
Jen: Yeah, for those of you who are like, “Oh my God, 5 million. That seems crazy, I'm not even near a million.” I think it's all about perspective too and knowing what you really need per month.
Bonnie: It’s just more zeros.
Jen; Yeah, that too.
Bonnie: Yeah, so I was doing the number crunching and basically I kind of got to the point where I'd have to put a certain amount a year, like I did all these calculations for X amount of years. And the reason why I got depressed, and this maybe sounds entitled, but I didn't want to retire at 65. I wanted to retire, it wasn't as soon as possible, but I forget exactly what I figured out with what I could do with the current income. And it was close to 60.
And I think I got depressed when I saw that. And it's not because I didn't want to work until 60. But I think in my mind I was like I'm going to be a little trapped until then. You know what I mean?
Jen: Yeah, there's just that flexibility or anything, if like your business comes up and it's exciting. But can you really do it? Or can you really enjoy it? Can you let go of some of that fear? And we just talked about with money of it's not enough, it's not enough, it's not enough, it's not enough, even if you do have enough.
Bonnie: Yeah.
Jen: It’s that constant tug and pull.
Bonnie: And also looking back, right, because hindsight is always 20/20, it also was just I realized that it was also based on what I knew about money at the time, right? Because I was kind of, at least I consider myself a beginner when all that was going on. And as I've learned more about money personally, and just also now have a group of friends that are really into money, talking about it, investing, I learned more.
I think like when I talked about the obsession with FI and crunching these numbers, that was, I think, based on my limited knowledge of money. Does that make sense?
Jen: Yeah. Well, where do you invest? Obviously, not like specifics, but are you more stock heavy? Are you more real estate heavy? Are you business focused? Or do you kind of have a little bit of everything?
Bonnie: That’s changed over time. So I think initially I was all about the stock market. Index funds, just do this, do Bogleheads, or Boggle heads, whatever it's called, just do whatever they say. That’s the way to go and that's the only way, and everyone else who does anything weird, like individual stocks is stupid. That was kind of my mindset back then, right.
And that's not what I think now, but I do think that's where most people begin. And you have to begin somewhere. So I was maxing out my retirement accounts at work, for the most part they just give you index funds or target funds. So I was doing that. Then I started slicing and dicing, what I mean by that is not using target funds, kind of picking my own stuff. And I was feeling pretty good, like, hey, I know what I'm doing.
And then my friends were all investing in real estate or I was learning more about it. I was like, oh, that sounds complicated. And people were, like there's a lot of like naysayers on it. I was like, I don't know and this sounds whatever. Kind of like how people talk about money that way.
Then I finally took the leap, and honestly it was because I had the support system. Like I actually took some courses and plus I had some really good friends who were teaching these courses, like we became friends because it's kind of like FinCon, you just become friends with other people in the money world. And they really helped me.
So my first real estate investment was actually a syndication. Do you know what that is?
Jen: Yes, but you could talk about it. I have an episode on it with Camilla Jeffs, so I'll put a link in the show notes. So for those of you who want to learn a little bit more in detail you could check that out too.
Bonnie: Yeah, it's basically a way to invest in real estate without being a landlord. And you just kind of give money to someone else and they figure it out.
Jen: Yeah, I look at it as like community investing in real estate. So if you don't have enough money necessarily for the full or you don't want to think of the work, you're working as a team with people and you can get bigger assets, so there's more reward.
Bonnie: Yeah, the downside is for many deals you have to be what they call an accredited investor. I'm sure you know this, where you have to make what is it, 200K as an individual or 300K if you're married.
Jen: Something like that.
Bonnie: So that was my first investment. And I'll just be honest, I didn't really understand syndications. And to be honest, I know a little bit more now, but I don't consider myself an expert. But, and I think this is really important, not just for business or finances, I just developed a trusted network of people that I really trusted. And then now they're my good friends.
But I literally just asked my friend who was a real estate investor and someone who, you might actually know him, Passive Income MD, Peter Kim?
Jen: That sounds familiar, yeah.
Bonnie: Yeah, so he's a blogger, podcaster, et cetera. I literally just texted him and said, “Okay, I'm ready to start.” I'd written some blog posts about I and I was like, “I'm ready to start, tell me who to invest with.” And he referred me to, he was like, “Oh, I wrote a blog post of all these syndication people that you could talk to.” And I'm like, “I went there, there was like 15, tell me which one I should do.”
I just was like let's cut to the chase. And I trusted him, right? And so he's like, “You know what? I think you'd like this.” And I was like, “Okay, done.” And so that was my first investment. It was 10K, which I know sounds like a lot of money, but that's actually on the lower end for syndications.
Jen: Yeah, I was going to say a lot of the ones I'm looking at are 50 to 100K.
Bonnie: Yeah, so now I invest in that range. But my first one I just like dipped my toe in, I called it. And when you put money in it, you pay attention, right, you pay attention.
Yeah, so did I answer your question? I feel like I go off on tangents.
Jen: You did, you did. Just like the fact that you're not just in the market anymore and that you're open to new things. And also, I mean, you didn't say this but it's pretty obvious, you are investing in your business because that's how you're making profit. And then that's where your focus and your time is. So I’m sure that’s a huge part of your portfolio.
Bonnie: Yeah, and so I would say if you asked me today what my goals are, in the short term, it's to have a very successful business. And how I define that right now is – Right now if I had to pick what is my long-term goal it’s to have a $5 million business. I don't know if I'm interested in going above that, and I want to take home a million dollars. That's kind of my, when I say long-term, then I have no doubt I'll hit that in the next five years, within five years.
Jen: And you were worried about having $5 million in the bank. And now you're like a million a year.
Bonnie: Yeah, I know. But I think that just goes to show that when you really work on your mindset, and this is where I think it's so important to work with a coach. And when I say coach, I mean specifically the type of coach where you really work on all the bullshit in your brain about money. That's the best way to explain it.
So I think it just goes to show when you work on your mindset, you just think so much bigger, you just see much more possibilities of what you can do and make. So yeah, I'm investing a lot in the business, and what I mean by that is I work with a business coach, I'm investing a lot in my mind because you're really only limited by what you think you can do, or what you think you can't do.
So the more you get rid of the I can't do stuff and the more you believe that you think you can do stuff, then the sky's really the limit, you know?
Jen: No, I love that so much. I know it's funny because I didn't expect the episode to go so far into the business side. But I think it's so important because especially now with inflation so high people are trying to get creative and create extra side income too. Even if you are making $200,000 a year, it's always good to, especially if you're passionate about something, to go into that.
Bonnie: Yeah. And here's what I want to say quickly about that because I'm very opinionated when it comes to debt and some other things because I feel like a lot of the education out there is about cutting expenses and being more frugal. And there's nothing wrong with being frugal, just so you know, because some people enjoy that.
But if you like luxury, like I do, or want to live a little fancier life, or you want to enjoy things that aren't like $1, very few people tell people, because cutting expenses is just one part of the equation, or you could figure out how to make more money. But that's not something that's talked about a lot.
Jen: No, because cutting the money is the easiest way for someone who's in a dire mode to just like, okay. Because sometimes it's a mindset thing of like, well, cut money is logical and tactical and I can do this. But make more money, like what's that? And do I need to put money in? I need to develop skills, and I need XYZ, and I can I really do it? Do I have the time? And yada, yada, yada, every excuse in the book.
Bonnie: Yep. Yeah, you're right, it's much easier to cut expenses. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't do that. I think there's a time and place to be intentional while you're figuring out how to make more money. So I'm not saying like don't ever do that. But I think so few people even consider the possibility of or I can figure out how to make more money.
And that doesn't mean you need to have a side gig, by the way. Because I think most people think, oh, I don't want to start a business or blah, blah, blah. There are other ways, you can ask for a raise or whatever.
Jen: So, Bonnie, this is when I usually like to enter the lightning round where I ask my guests the same four questions every week. But before we jump into that, my final thought question for you is for someone who is a high income earner and is struggling with money, what are the first couple of steps or the first couple of things you would tell them?
Bonnie: I think number one is to normalize it because I think there is so much, I think, shame if you don't know money. And I think that's at every income level, you know, people are like, oh, I should know better, et cetera. But then how would you know? Unless there was a money class that you missed, you know? Did you just not show up that day? Or someone didn't tell you that there was a class down the hall at this time? That's not the case?
So I think just normalizing of course you don't know, no one taught you. So why would you know? More money doesn't, like I kind of said offline, it's not like you had a chip in your brain when you hit 100K where you can download all the knowledge. So I normalize it and then I say, and this is something you can learn, it's doable. It truly is not rocket science, no matter what you do, right? Because I think women also feel that more than men.
Jen: Yes.
Bonnie: There's nothing women specific that means you can't learn money. And I think we're socialized to whatever, that it's hard or stressful. So those are the first two things I would say, is like, hey, of course you don't know money. And two, and you can learn it and it's doable. You can learn it, it's not something only reserved to the people who make more money or who have a college degree. Does that make sense?
Jen: Yeah.
Bonnie: Because I know, people I know actually, I'm thinking of a coach, her name is Corinne Crabtree, she's a weight loss coach. So if any of your listeners want to lose weight, she's fantastic and she's lower priced in general. So she, I don't think she finished high school. And you know how much her business made last year?
Jen: I can only imagine.
Bonnie: This is so fun, $15 million.
Jen: Wow.
Bonnie: Obviously that didn't happen overnight, it was over a period of like a decade.
Jen: But still, 10 years to like 15 million.
Bonnie: But she's like, I didn't finish high school. She's like, if I can do it, you can do it. And not everyone has the goal to make 15 million, but it just goes to show education is not a requirement to make money, because I think a lot of people think that.
Jen: Yeah, there's the whole imposter syndrome, which we don’t have to go down right now, but it's definitely real and a mind block.
Bonnie: Yeah.
Jen: Awesome. And I know that you, I'm going to say this for you, but that you offer a lot of coaching and classes as well, which is awesome. So for any of you who are interested in learning more about Bonnie and her work and access to her mindset, because I don't if you listened to what Bonnie said, but first of all, she has a coach, so she's willing to put money and invest in herself, which not a lot of people do.
And she made sure she found, she didn't say this but I'm going to assume she made sure she found the right ones, because that's why she was actually able to achieve her goal. So it's one thing to set this high goal and like, okay, 200,000, but then it’s another thing to actually do it or at least take the steps to really get after it. So kudos to you for all the work.
Bonnie: Oh, thank you. And here's what I want to say about a coach, because hiring a good coach doesn't mean you're going to suddenly make money.
And the reason why I work with coaches is because they help you with all the blocks. Because you can set a goal, but then you're going to meet some blocks or get scared. And so that's why I hire a coach, because they help me with that part. Because like I said, you're only limited by what you think you can do or can't do.
Jen: Yeah.
Bonnie: So when I say I can't do that, or I'm scared I can't do that, they just question it like, why can't you?
Jen: Yeah.
Bonnie: So yeah, just wanted to put that in there.
Jen: No, that's great. So All right, Bonnie, I know you gave so many nuggets and so much wisdom. Any other last minute thoughts before we jump into the lightning round?
Bonnie: Yeah, you have to love the money you have now. And let's say you are working on increasing your income, or saving, or investing, you have to be excited and love every dollar that you make, versus oh, this isn't enough, or I can't be happy until I have whatever.
Let's say you're trying to save 5K towards an emergency fund. And it's easy to look at the bank account or whatever and see, you know, it's at 1500, it's easy to be like, “Oh, I'm not there yet,” or being disappointed. The key to actually making more and being happy about it is actually to be happy about it now. It doesn't seem like it because I think a lot of us think we have to like be miserable until we get the goal.
Jen: Yeah, because otherwise, like you said before, you're always going to be chasing the next dollar.
Bonnie: Yep, absolutely.
Jen: Awesome. All right, Bonnie, thank you so much for that last tip. Let's jump into lightning round. Question number one is what is one fun fact about you that not many people know?
Bonnie: Ooh, fun fact. Well, I'm like what does fun mean? Okay, well, I think this is fun. I really love to cook, including baking, and I'm really good at it and I love entertaining. So I haven't been doing that because of Covid. But that's fun because people love to eat food that other people make.
Jen: What's your favorite thing to cook?
Bonnie: Oh, there's so many. So let's just talk about the recent stuff because the pandemic has made everyone a baker, right? So I have baked all the things, I did the sourdough thing. You know, that was like a whole thing. I've baked other breads. I'm not much of a dessert person in terms of baking, but the most recent thing I got into was flat breads, including making my own corn tortillas.
Jen: Ooh, that sounds really good.
Bonnie: And I had no idea the difference between a homemade tortilla versus a store bought, they're not the same thing. I'll leave it at that.
Jen: Awesome. Well, if you want to send some recipes I'll put them in the show notes too. All right, question number two is who inspires you the most and why?
Bonnie: So I'm just going to pause for a second because I just went to a conference, a little quick story, I know they always become long. Someone asked this question at my coaching conference where I got certified, like who's someone you admire and inspire? And he gave us like 30 seconds to think of it. He's like, how many of you said it was you? And of course, no one did. And it gave us, you know, everyone was like, whoa.
So I preface that because I don't automatically think of myself, but I'm trying to intentionally appreciate and admire myself. Not in like an arrogant way like I'm better than you, but like why wouldn't I choose to be inspired by myself? That’s something I’m working on.
Jen: Yeah, I love that. That kind of just that hit me, that was really good. Because even for people who are type A who do, do, do, do, do, I feel like there's always a point where it's always like, again, to be like the same thing like the next dollar, that person to get the next thing, the next thing, that you never appreciate how far you've come.
Bonnie: Yeah, totally. That goes back to what I was saying before, before the lightning round, you have to appreciate and love not just everything but also yourself.
Jen: Yeah, so true. All right, question number three is what books are you reading now or have read that you loved and would recommend?
Bonnie: Yeah, I am so in love with two books right now. One of them is Brene Brown’s Atlas Of The Heart. That's pretty new so I don’t know if you’re familiar with it. If you’re not, everyone needs to go get the book. Not just the book, the book is, I have it in front of me but your people can't see it. But it's a beautiful book, it's hardcover, it's kind of like a textbook, but not in a boring way. It's just beautifully illustrated, it's beautiful.
But you need to go get the audiobook too, because it’s Brene and she adds some things. And she's got a little miniseries about the book on, I think it's on HBO Max.
Jen: Okay, cool.
Bonnie: So I just, like I said, I kind of go crazy when I get into something. It's so, so good. That's the first book. And I just keep rereading things. Do you know this book, by the way?
Jen: No, I'm excited to jump into it.
Bonnie: Oh my God, you have to get it and you’ll I see why when you get it. It basically explains emotions and gives the history of it. And I think it just really helps you understand your emotions. So I think it's like you're learning but then you're also learning about yourself in the process. And I'm all about that.
And the second book, I just started it, and it's actually a new book. I don't have it in front of me but it's by Trudi Lebron, and I think it's called the Antiracist Business Book, something like that, I'm probably getting the title wrong. So as a business owner, I would read it. But even if you're not a business owner I recommend it. There's a lot more awareness just around racism and things like that.
And so she's a DEI coach and educator, and you're going to learn so much about systems, whether or not you're a business owner, and just things that you might not know you're doing that are perpetuating it. So I think as a business owner it's a must. And even if you're not, I think it's really valuable to learn about it.
Jen: Oh, I'm excited. Those are going to be added to my book list. It's now just finding the time to read said books. But I’m starting to maybe get into audiobooks because in the car that the easiest.
Bonnie: Yeah, no, totally.
Jen: All right, the last question is what is one actionable tip or piece of advice that you can tell our moms out there to help them on their financial independence journey?
Bonnie: I really think the first tip is to allow yourself to believe that you can do it, whatever it is for you. Just allow yourself to believe it and allow yourself to want it without guilt, because that's kind of the mindset piece. Because I think a lot of us, we have so much chatter like well, I shouldn't want more. I'm okay now, I should be grateful. There are people suffering. But you not making more money doesn't help them.
Jen: Yeah.
Bonnie: And actually, the more money you make, the more you can help. So that's my tip, allow yourself to believe, well believe and let yourself want what you want.
Jen: Yeah, that’s such good advice. I love, like throughout this whole episode, just the way you’ve spoken just so eloquently and you could hear it through your mindset. So thank you so much for sharing.
Bonnie: You're welcome.
Jen: Well, Bonnie, I enjoyed this episode so much. How can my listeners connect with you further?
Bonnie: Yeah, so as you mentioned in the beginning my brand is called Wealthy Mom, MD, so super simple. That's my website, wealthymommd.com, that's my Instagram handle, and that's my podcast name.
Jen: Yeah, and I'll put links to all of this in the show notes as well. All right, Bonnie, well, thank you so much for coming on again. This was so much fun.
Bonnie: You're welcome.
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115: Taking Care of Your Brain
A little while ago, I sent an email and posted on my social media about how I am on psychiatric medication. I had been trying to figure things out on my own and white-knuckle through, when I gave in and met with a psychiatrist and was diagnosed with Depression. And I got such an amazing response that I knew I had to do a podcast episode about it.
The whole divide between mental and physical health is ridiculous, and there is still a stigma attached to the term ‘mental health’ alone. We talk openly about physical health and taking care of that, but we hide away from talking about our mental health. The brain is of our most valuable organs, so why are we not talking more openly about taking care of it?
In this episode, I’m showing you the importance of taking care of your brain and sharing some ways to help you do this. I’m talking more about my experience with depression and why speaking about mental health is so important, why so many people feel like they can’t get help or support, and why you should always seek help if you are struggling.
I want to invite you to come with me to Oahu, Hawaii from October 10th-13th for The Live Wealthy Retreat Experience. There are limited spots available, so click here to enroll now!
If you're ready to take control of your money and practice medicine on your terms, you need to check out Money for Women Physicians. Click here to learn more!
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
- Why it is so dangerous to white knuckle through and try to figure things out on our own.
- Some of the different ways you can get access to coaching.
- Why coaching doesn’t work when your brain is not well.
- How I think about the difference between a life coach, therapist, and psychiatrist.
- My experience with post-partum anxiety.
- Why it is important to know you are not alone if you are struggling.
Listen to the Full Episode:
Featured on the Show:
- Learn more about Money for Women Physicians where you'll learn the tools to make practicing medicine OPTIONAL.
- Follow me on Instagram
Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it, and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level your money and your life. I’m your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.
So right now, I am actually in New York City, I live just outside of it in New Jersey. And I am staying at a hotel downtown because tomorrow I will be spending two days with my business coach. And I needed to record a podcast and so I brought my mic to the hotel.
So fair warning, New York City, as many of you know, can be quite noisy and my room is on a busy street. And so there have been sirens going on all day and honking et cetera. So you might hear some.
So I just got back from Nashville, Tennessee, I was there as the keynote speaker for the Women in Pain Medicine conference. I didn’t go to the actual conference since I don't practice pain medicine, obviously. But what was amazing about it was the women there were so amazing.
So obviously, women in pain medicine and I'm sort of guessing mostly, but the whole reason behind having a conference, a gathering for women only is to promote women, to empower them. And as you know, in medicine women are still way outnumbered.
So this is kind of an aside, but I went to some of the meals and they were sponsored by, not pharmaceutical companies but medical device companies. And they were talking about, well they were just showing what I thought were like wild things. Just, you know, as a dermatologist, obviously, we deal with skin.
And so I learned that pain medicine doctors do a lot of procedures and they're doing some weird stuff in the spine. So that kind of makes sense, they're treating pain and so a lot of the pain originates from the nerves, the spinal cord. And so I just found the whole thing fascinating.
Back to my keynote talk, as you can imagine I did talk about money, obviously, since I like to talk about that. And if you were there, thank you for listening. And I talked about really, the only thing you really need to know is that you need to buy and grow assets and to understand what an asset is.
And honestly, the hardest part of that is not actually the learning of the doing because I'm telling you, these doctors can understand what the heck these devices do and all the physiology and all that stuff, which honestly, I never quite understood during medical school. It is not a complexity problem.
It is not a I can't learn this problem because money itself, investing, real estate, whatever is actually not that hard compared to what you learned in medical school or whatever school you went to. Seriously. What gets in the way is you, your brain. That's actually what I said, this is what gets in the way of getting rich, you. And I went into some more detail.
And so it was great. I haven't given a talk in a while and I actually don't love speaking. I feel like I talked about this maybe a podcast or two ago, but yeah, I get really nervous and I get really stressed out before. This time it wasn't so bad. Like once I was there I didn't feel nervous, and I usually do so I guess that's an improvement.
But I'm pretty picky about taking on speaking gigs because A, I get nervous and stressed out. And it's a lot of traveling. I love traveling, but lately I've been feeling a little tired. And yes, I'm in New York right now. I could have commuted daily, I thought about it but it’s a lot of traffic from New Jersey to New York so I just booked a hotel. And I'm going to Denver next week. And so it's just been a bit much.
Anyway, that's not what I actually want to talk about today. Before we start on today's topic, are you coming to Hawaii? October 10th through the 13th I'm having an amazing retreat. It's going to blow your socks off. Like if you knew what I was planning and all the surprises that we have planned for you, you'd want to come. And it is filling up and I definitely want you there.
And so if you've been dreaming about it, then I want to invite you to chat with me. And so we will put the link in the show notes, or actually probably the easiest thing is to just go to my website, wealthymommd.com/retreat, and if you scroll down you'll see a link to schedule a call with me. So we will have about 30 minutes and I will help you make a decision.
I have spoken to a few of you and you have found it really helpful in terms of making a decision and asking any questions you might have. So wealthymommd.com/retreat, and you can schedule that call.
Okay, so here's what I want to talk about today. Not too long ago I sent an email and posted on my social media about how I am on psychiatric medication. And I talked about it very openly and I got such amazing responses and so I knew I had to do a podcast on it. I wanted to talk about my experience, and honestly, I guess, make it more okay to talk about it, because we don't. Kind of like how we don't talk about money.
Now, talking about our mental health, as you know, is very stigmatized, maybe even more so than talking about money. Especially for physicians, because when you apply for medical licenses or credentialing, they actually ask you about whether you're under the care of psychiatrists.
Actually I don't know if they ask you if you’re on medication? Probably not because I don't think that's a legal question. But they ask about your mental history and you have to say yes or no. And most people I know just lie because they're worried about repercussions.
So first of all, that's totally effed up because it is. Mainly because first of all, the whole divide between mental health and physical health is just dumb. It is all health. The brain is an organ, it is. But it's been stigmatized and it's almost like we feel like we can't do anything about it or get help or support, which is just craziness.
I'm going to talk more about that a little bit. So before I talk about sort of where I'm at right now and sort of recent things that led me to even talking about this, I feel like I need to backtrack a little bit and give you a little bit of history.
So I have a son, as many of you know, he is turning five in October. And so I took about four months of maternity leave and then I started a new job. All that to say that I had some big life stressors happening all in a very short amount of time.
Now, I didn't have postpartum depression. I definitely had postpartum anxiety, which I didn't even know was a thing, but it is. Mainly because I think so many of us hear about postpartum depression and so we don't usually hear much about postpartum anxiety.
And here's what I found interesting, I don't really consider myself a super anxious person, and maybe I'm incorrect. But I do remember how I felt after having Jack. And it wasn't so much about worrying things overtly, I have to actually think about it for a second because it's been a while.
But I just remember feeling overwhelmed and that I couldn't keep track of things, I couldn't plan things, like everything just felt kind of crazy in my brain. I didn't feel sad, but it just felt like too much. I didn't have a panic attack, but I do remember having this feeling of like things almost spinning.
Not like the room spinning, but things spinning because of just all the stuff in my brain and I couldn't make sense out of it. And I actually did go on Zoloft for a little while, my OB/GYN suggested it. And in case you don't know, Zoloft is a pretty commonly prescribed medication for postpartum depression.
I definitely think it helped. And then I was able to go off of it. And I would say for a good part of 2021, if I had to give a timeframe probably mainly the second half of the year. Maybe starting in September, I really couldn't tell you, I was not doing great. And here's what I mean by that, I struggled a lot last year personally and in my business.
And what I mean by that is, for a large part of the year I felt like it was a struggle in my business in terms of making money and also in terms of how I was feeling about me in the business. Meaning I started to really believe that maybe something was wrong with me and that I had sort of lost my ability to make money.
I know that might sound strange, like even me just saying this out loud sounds strange. But that's really how I felt, I really felt like something was wrong with me. And as you can imagine, when you keep thinking something is wrong with you, nothing good happens.
And then I started to feel hopeless. And I think what's dangerous is that I don't even think I really was able to see that I was really not in a good place. And two of my friends, and they're both coaches, and one of them is a physician, actually told me maybe it was through text, I don't remember, that they were worried about me.
And that honestly prompted me to do something about it almost immediately. And I'm so grateful that I did something about it and I made an appointment with a psychiatrist right away. And I'll be honest, I feel very privileged as a physician that I could find a psychiatrist pretty quickly.
Meaning like get a name and actually get an appointment very quickly, because I do know how hard it is to find a psychiatrist or even a therapist, and many of them don't take insurance. And I feel very grateful, and again, privileged that I'm in a position to pay cash.
And yeah, it is not cheap. And it's the best things I've ever done for myself in terms of paying to help my brain. Because if your brain doesn't work, if your for brain isn't well, it doesn't really matter what else is going on, right?
And the first appointment was well over an hour, I don't remember, but it was a long interview. And there was a follow up. And after she kind of got all the information she did and it was time for her to tell me what she thought, I mean, it was very simple, she said you are depressed. And I just remember even just her saying that it just, it really felt like a huge weight was off my shoulders.
It just felt like relief because I think I really was trying to just like figure it out on my own and kind of just like white knuckling through things. Because I think as physicians and, you know, any super type A, high achieving, like we think we can just figure it out, we don't need help.
And I just want to say how dangerous that is. I know logically we kind of know that's not useful, but we all do it. And I think as physicians, we're more prone to it because our training really emphasizes that you got to suck it up, literally, and deal with it.
And so I started medication and I started a medication called Lamictal, I had talked about that in my email. And, obviously, I'm not a psychiatrist, but it is different than most other antidepressant medications. In fact, I don't even think it's FDA approved for depression. It's FDA approved for, I think, bipolar. I'm not bipolar as far as I know.
But it works specifically for the depressed mood part, not for the mania part. And it doesn't have a lot of the side effects that SSRIs can have. And so she suggested that, and I'm at a stable dose and I feel great.
And what I mean by feeling great is my brain is back to the way it should be, it is working. And it is so nice to have my brain back and I was going to say like I just feel like I'm at home again. And now that I'm “back to normal” it's really easy for me to see that where I was at the end of last year, it's like night and day is the best way I want to talk about it.
Now, I just realized something I forgot to say about four and a half years ago when I had Jack and I had the postpartum anxiety. I had two postpartum hemorrhages, right, as if one isn't enough. And in case you're not quite sure what that means, I almost bled to death twice.
Now, the good news is I gave birth in a hospital so there were people there right away. And one of my good friends actually delivered Jack and I was at the hospital that I was an attending, I was on faculty for my first job out of residency. And, you know, he popped out and Jessica is the one who delivered me, so if you're listening, hi.
I’ve got say OB/GYNs are some calm women because, I don't know, if there was like a crazy complication going on I'm not sure I'd be calm. But I just remember her saying, “Huh, that's a lot of blood.” And when she said that, because she said it so coolly I didn't think much of it because I know there's bleeding after having a baby like it's normal. Like I think I read somewhere that losing up to half a liter is “normal.” That’s still a lot of blood though, maybe it's 250, don't quote me on that.
And the next thing I remember is my room was filled with doctors. And after the fact, I was told that yes, it was the OB crash team, not a good thing you want to show up to your room. Obviously, I'm fine because I'm here. But I got basically between that and the second postpartum hemorrhage, which happened two weeks later, I think I got five units of blood.
Again, obviously, I'm fine and I recovered pretty quickly because I accepted blood products because I think one of the doctors told me that some women won't accept blood products after a hemorrhage, not necessarily for religious reasons, they just don't want it and they take a very long time to recover. I remember I had to be on iron pills, it was awful. I probably didn't take it correctly or just stop taking it because it was disgusting.
But I just wanted to mention that because I know some of you listening are pregnant, some of you may just have had a baby. And so I just want to tell you if you're feeling overwhelmed, if you're feeling emotionally labile which means like your mood is really up and down, you feel like you cry for no reason, basically, if you are not feeling yourself.
Now, listen, I think everyone who has a baby feels a little off because you're not sleeping. If you think or want support, get it, please. It's okay. It's normal. In fact, what I just said, it's normal, is so important because none of us would think anything if your friend said, oh yeah, I went to the doctor and I have high blood pressure, I'm on a medication. People would just say it very nonchalantly.
Why aren't we talking about taking care of one of our most valuable organs? Obviously, they're all valuable, can't live without the heart, can't live without the brain either. And if you are not thinking properly, if you are not feeling like yourself and you're thinking and your mood is impaired, I mean, nothing else really matters.
And here's how, looking back, sort of like the, I don't want to say warning signs, but here's the thing, as a coach I am used to coaching myself. I still get coached by another person because I still have a human brain, obviously, and sometimes it's just hard for me to see things. But I am able to coach myself on many things.
And I noticed it kind of stopped working. Meaning I kept thinking this isn't working, if I just believe harder it would be, you know, what's wrong with me, et cetera. And I guess the best way to explain it is that thought work or coaching wasn't working. And I also want to make this really important point, coaching doesn't work when your brain is not well, okay? I just could not have access to certain thoughts.
And so this actually leads me to the next thing I want to talk about because I do get asked a lot, what's the difference between a life coach, a psychiatrist, a therapist? Which one should I work with? Who do I need?
Now, first of all, obviously, I am not a mental health professional. However, this is how I think of it, okay? They're all what I call part of your mental health or your brain team. I like the term brain because I feel like mental health, just that phrase has some stigma.
I think about there are all these trained people that help you optimize your brain. And this is what I sort of like heard about the difference in terms of what, I actually don't even know who said this, but a therapist takes you from suffering to baseline. And a coach takes you from baseline to thriving. But it's not either or, there are, actually I have friends who are coaches, some are non-coaches, and they have all three. They have a psychiatrist, a therapist and a coach.
So right now I have coaches, because I work with multiple coaches at different times and I have a psychiatrist. I do not have a therapist, I could probably use one. And so what people are always asking me like, who should I work with first, and like I said it's not either or. Maybe it's all of the above, it really depends on your needs. They all have a place and like I said, I think of it as a team.
Now, the analogy I like to give for this is this, okay, so we all kind of know that like working out, physical fitness is like a thing. But I read that it's actually a modern phenomena. Meaning there was a time not too long ago where people didn't really work out, it wasn't a thing. There wasn't like a gym, or a yoga place, or a Pilates place on every corner. That is relatively recent.
And there's so many different modalities. You know, at one point, I was going to Orangetheory or Barry's Boot Camp, I was going to hot vinyasa yoga, and I was going to SoulCycle, and I had a personal trainer. I think that actually happened all at once at some time, but it wasn't always like that. Clearly, this was when I was single and I had a lot more time.
There's something for everyone and at different price points, right? Because you don't need to pay for any of this, you could just find a workout on YouTube and there's physical therapy. And when I think of pro athletes, they have a team for their body. They all have coaches.
Have you noticed that all pro athletes, and I'm thinking like Olympic athletes, but anyone who's a high performing athlete, they always have a coach, have you noticed? They could be the number one in whatever they do, and they still have a coach. I just want to put that out there because I think sometimes I know people say well, do you always need a coach and why do you even need a coach? It's so they can be at your peak physical performance.
And I know that they also have like massage therapists, they probably get massages every week, if not a few times a week. They've optimized their nutrition. They have people who stretch them. I mean they have a whole team for their body because that is like their job to perform physically at the top of their game.
And so I'm guessing you're not a pro athlete, obviously I'm not either, but this is how I think about the people that help me with my brain. And I do that for myself, obviously, I'm not in some mind Olympics, I don't even know what that would be.
I do it for myself personally, but I also do it for my clients, right? Because I want my clients to have the best coach. And so I get coached so that I work in a lot of things, obviously, personal stuff, business stuff. But the more I can get out of the way in terms of like me, I think the more effective coach I can be for my clients. And so I really don't feel like there will ever be a time where I don't have some sort of person on my brain team.
Now, that doesn't mean you're always going to have a one on one coach. In fact, I don't have a private coach right now. I have for sure. Right now the coaching I get is all in a group setting. And I have access to the actual coach on different, depending on the program I'm in.
So kind of like what I was saying about working out, there are so many ways to get coached, and many different price points, because I hear a lot of people saying it's expensive. There are very inexpensive ways to get access to coaching.
And when I think of that even word coaching, it's personal development, it's self-growth, it's gaining awareness of yourself, it's learning how to love yourself again. It's so many things, it's hard to even say exactly, like the one thing that coaching can help you with. Obviously, I've drank or drunk the coaching Kool-Aid as a coach and someone who coaches people. And it's because I know how powerful it is because I have been coaching long enough that I have proof of the changes it creates for people.
And so anyway, if you listen to this you probably are into coaching too so I can probably stop talking about this. But my point today is it's so important to take care of your brain. So, so important. So if you're listening to this and you have been struggling, please do something about it.
And the last thing I want to say, if you are a physician and you are worried about I don't know someone finding out or whatever, unfortunately, what I've heard people do is they only pay cash so there's no paper trail. And sometimes they even use a fake name for their medications because the medications can be tracked, unfortunately.
And what I've heard is that psychiatrists don't really keep detailed notes, you know, obviously, the doctor patient relationship is confidential, but they don't usually take detailed notes to protect the patient in case there is a reason why they would be unsealed.
So I just wanted to put that out there. And a big percentage of people I don't even know, maybe it's 30%, maybe it's 40, maybe it's more are on medication for the brain. And thank God people are doing something about it because like I said, brain is so important. People are on all sorts of other medications for all sorts of other things with their body. And we really need to stop being afraid to take care of our brains.
So I hope you are taking such exquisite care of yours, whether it's having a psychiatrist and or a therapist, and or a coach. I'll leave you guys with that.
And as a reminder, I coach in a group setting inside my program Money For Women. I do some private coaching, I have, you know, not that many spots, I take on a very limited number of clients. And we have the retreat coming out in October and that will be about two and a half days of powerful coaching in a very intimate setting.
And people always ask me like, what is the difference between private and one on one coaching? Actually I want to say this real quick because I'm going to be able to tie in that fitness analogy so it's going to work out really well. So here's the thing, you know how when you go to a group fitness class, I’m going to use Orangetheory as an example because it was kind of the last group fitness I did.
So just think of any class where you weren't the only person there working out. You know what’s such a bummer about these group fitness classes? You have to work out too to get the benefit. I’m just laughing because of course, right? But meaning you can't just watch people work out and get the same benefit.
But in coaching, in a group coaching format you don't even actually have to get coached directly by the coach to get immense benefit. And here's why, two reasons. One is even if the person getting coached is getting coached about something that has nothing to do with anything in your life, it is still going to be immensely valuable. Because the type of coaching I do and get is about coaching on how you think and how your brain is sort of making sense of things.
And the best part is we all have human brains and all human brains kind of have the same glitches. And so the person you're observing is having a brain glitch in let's just say her relationship. Let's say you don't have that brain glitch, you're like, oh, well, I don't have a relationship problem, but you have a glitch in another part of your life that's kind of the same type of glitch. That's number one.
Number two, the reason why it's so effective and I would even say maybe even more effective than private coaching is like when you are actually getting coached one on one, whether it's one on one or me coaching you in front of a group, sometimes it feels like you're on the spot and you're feeling nervous.
And I guess the best way to say it is like yeah, you're nervous, it might be hard to think about things clearly because, like I said, you're kind of on the spot, your brain is on the spot, right? Meaning that you might be feeling a little agitated and on edge. But when you're watching and hearing someone else getting coached, your brain isn’t on the spot, so you're more open and receptive.
So I am actually in a group program now and I have actually never gotten coached by the coach, and that's fine. I don't have a problem. In fact, it wasn't until the last class, and we've had several were I actually requested to get coached, I did not get picked and that's fine. But I am getting so much value from just watching other people get coached.
Anyway, I didn’t plan to kind of go all into that, but just wanted to explain to you since we're talking about the different ways to take care of your brain, so many different ways to get coaching. It doesn't have to be a certain way.
Okay, well, I will talk to you guys next week. And I will definitely tell you guys what I learned and the insights I've gained after two days with my business coach. Okay, I will talk to you guys next week.
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114: How to Question Everything
Three things have been on my mind recently and I’m addressing each of them on today’s show. The first one is around decisions. I know, I’ve spoken about decisions before, but I’m learning every day, so I have some new insights around how we make decisions to share with all of you. This leads perfectly into point number two for the day: believing the thought, “I don’t know.”
I’ve also covered awareness around your thoughts and feelings before, and I’ve seen a lot of clients learn about changing their thoughts. However, negative thoughts keep coming back again and again, so we’re discussing what to do in those scenarios as well.
Tune in this week for a general discussion about three things that I’ve seen coming up in my clients’ lives, and even my own day-to-day. I’m sharing new discoveries I’ve made about decisions, sticky thoughts, and how we avoid being wrong by saying, “I don’t know,” when it comes to moving our lives forward.
I want to invite you to come with me to Oahu, Hawaii from October 10th-13th for The Live Wealthy Retreat Experience. There are limited spots available, so click here to enroll now!
If you're ready to take control of your money and practice medicine on your terms, you need to check out Money for Women Physicians. Click here to learn more!
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
- Why the decisions we need to make to move us forward rarely feel certain, and they generally don’t feel good.
- The ways we often try to process thoughts that keep coming up for us, and why we need a new approach.
- Why we find it so easy to believe ourselves when we say, “I don’t know.”
- How to see past your belief that you don’t know how to move forward and start questioning everything.
Listen to the Full Episode:
Featured on the Show:
- Learn more about Money for Women Physicians where you'll learn the tools to make practicing medicine OPTIONAL.
- Follow me on Instagram
Welcome to The Wealthy Mom MD Podcast, a podcast for women physicians who want to learn how to live a wealthy life. In this podcast you will learn how to make money work for you, how you can have more of it, and learn the tools to empower you to live a life on purpose. Get ready to up-level your money and your life. I’m your host, Dr. Bonnie Koo.
Hello, hello. So today's going to be a bit of a hodgepodge. I've done these types of episodes before, usually it's after I've attended some kind of event, a mastermind event or some kind of coaching gathering, and I love to share with you some of the pearls that I've learned. So I'm going to share three things, although these aren't from an event, just things that have been on my mind and I wanted to share it with you all.
But before I get into that I want to make sure you guys know about my retreat in Hawaii, a luxury retreat at the Four Seasons Oahu. To find out all the details, go to wealthymommd.com/retreat, or just go to my main website and you'll see a link to click on to find out more. It's October 10th through 13th. And the fee is all inclusive. It includes your three nights there, all the food, and some amazing swag.
I’ve got to tell you, that has kind of been the most fun part of planning this, it's going to be ridiculous. And when I say ridiculous, my goal honestly is to wow your pants off. Not just with the stuff I'm going to give you, you're going to get some amazing stuff, but just create the most amazing, luxurious experience.
And that includes, at least to me, you just feeling so taken care of. Because here's what I know, we are not good at putting ourselves first. And in these three days you will be so taken care of, not necessarily by me, although that's part of it. But also just giving yourself that gift of having those three nights where you are enjoying yourself and working on yourself.
And so I can't wait to hang out with you guys, it's limited to 10 women. Also, you're going to have the option to add on days at the four seasons before and after at a pretty reduced rate. I mean, I would say after all the fees and taxes, so annoying, right? You see the room rate but then they’re like, “Just getting, there's also a 20% extra fee or taxes or whatever.” Even accounting for all that it is almost half off the rack rate. So pretty amazing. So you definitely need to check it out and come to Hawaii.
Okay, here are the things I want to talk about. So there's three things, the first thing I want to talk about, now, as you know, I have talked a lot about making decisions and how I want you to think about it, how I think about it.
And the reason why I spend so much time on making decisions is because it's a really important skill. Not just in life, but for everything in your work, your personal life. And it's your ability to make decisions and take action that is, I don't want to say determines your success, but kind of, right? It moves you forward.
And so one of the things that I recently uncovered, actually it was when I was getting coached on something is well, first of all, I've talked about before how we really get stuck in this mentality of a right or wrong decision and really just questioning that. Why are those the two options that are available, right?
And also, there's no such thing as a right or wrong decision. We're the ones who tell ourselves that, and maybe someone else tells you that but really we are telling ourselves that. So here's a little extra tidbit that I want to share about decisions. I think sometimes we think some magical feeling is going to wash over us and then we will know what the right decision is.
Like we'll feel something, or we'll get a sign, or whatever it is, like a lightning bolt is going to hit you. That does not usually happen, or ever happen. Or we want to get to a place where we feel really clear and certain that this is the decision we should make.
And here's what I want to tell you, sometimes, maybe more than sometimes, making a decision doesn't necessarily feel good. I'm going to say it again, when you're making a decision, it doesn't necessarily feel good.
And I just find a lot of us are waiting or thinking that at some point we're going to know what we should do and that it's going to feel clear, and certain, and good. But what if that's not true? I think part of making decisions is that discomfort of committing to something knowing that the future is a little uncertain.
Speaking of uncertainty, I wasn't planning on talking about this per se today, so many of us want certainty. We want to be in control in general. And I think this is kind of a type A trait for us. But we never really have control. It's just an illusion of control.
So I want you to think about that for a second. We're never actually in control, except for our thoughts and feelings, and things are always uncertain, always. There's no way to guarantee something, never.
Okay, that's the first thing I wanted to talk about, here's the second thing. So what I coach a lot of my clients on, or what they struggle with is after they learn that their thoughts create their feelings and become much more aware of their thoughts. So for example, I might coach them on whatever their not so useful thought is, and they start to make progress with a more empowering thought.
And what usually happens, including me, is they'll feel great and be like, yeah, there's this new way of thinking and I'm feeling good and blah, blah, blah. And then a day or two later, or maybe an hour or two later, that same negative thought pops in. Maybe it pops up multiple times.
And a negative thought might have a certain volume. Like I don't hear thoughts in a certain volume but sometimes certain ones catch your attention and they're like very loud in terms of trying to get my attention. Or the emotion might be very strong. And I think of emotions as like, an internal notification system that's telling us information.
And so here's what I want to say about that. Just because a thought comes up frequently, just because a thought or an emotion might feel strong or powerful, or just seem to, I don't know, be more sticky, doesn't necessarily mean anything.
And I think the best way to illustrate this is, I know so many of you think that some people don't have self-doubt or fear, those types of feelings, or even limiting thoughts about their ability to succeed or take action. People say that about me. And here's what I want to say, that is just simply not true.
I know some of my clients are like, “What? You don't get to some like brain Nirvana where all of your thoughts are great?” No. That's the bad news. I still often have feelings of failure that, you know, for example, actually this is perfect because I'm actually flying to Nashville tomorrow to give a talk. I think it'll be like 100 women.
So I actually really hate speaking. Well, I don't hate it, I just get so nervous before and so anxious. And what I noticed this time is I'm less anxious about the actual speaking part in front of people. I mean, I don't love it. But I noticed I was having a lot of self-doubt about the topic. And I know the topic so well, but I actually had a lot of mind drama about whether this is the right topic, whether they're going to like it, what if they think it's bad?
And so I just give that example to illustrate that we all have thoughts like that. Also, what's different this time, or maybe not different is I can see those thoughts for what they are and it doesn't mean that my talk is not good, et cetera. It's possible that my talk might flop.
It's totally possible. And just because my mind is offering thoughts that maybe this isn't what they really want to hear and some other BS thoughts that are not useful, doesn’t necessarily mean that it's true and it definitely isn't useful.
All right, that's point number two. Let's move on to point number three. I’m trying to figure out how to say this exactly, but one of the things that will often come up is I’ll ask a question and it's so easy for us to spit out, “Well, I don't really know. I don't know how, I'm not quite sure what to do next.”
And this recently came up on a consultation I was doing for my private coaching. And I forget the question I was asking her, but it was some form of question. And at first, she said I don't know.
So here's what I want to say about that. When we say I don't know, most of us believe it. Have you noticed? And because you believe it, you don't actually try to find an answer.
One of the things I kind of preach is to never say, “I can't afford this.” Because when you give yourself a statement like that, and I don't know is definitely in that same category, you don't do anything about it. Because if you can't afford it and you believe it, there's no reason to think more about it.
The same thing with I don't know. So here's how I handle it with my clients, and then I'm going to give you a tip as well. So when this client was on the phone with me and she said I don't know, I simply asked, take a guess.
And I think part of the reason why we often spit out I don't know without even giving much thought to it is we don't want to be wrong. And so when I ask, or just encourage with take a guess, it kind of relieves the pressure and it gives space for them to think about it more, right?
Because if I just let this person say I don't know and I believed her too, we’re kind of at a dead end, you see what I'm saying? Also, by the way, it's my job as a coach to not believe anything your brain offers and to question everything. That's why we're so useful, because left to your own devices we will just believe whatever our brain tells us. This is also why I always have a coach, because it is kind of crazy what our brains tell us.
So here's a tip I want to say to you. So, of course, you can also use that little prompt like, what if I did know? So when you're telling yourself, “Well, I don't really know how to do that.” I just want you to pause and ask, “Well, what if I did know?” And that's a great question. And not only that, remember, questions are great for your brain because your brain wants to answer questions.
Also, it's so easy for us to ask someone else for the answer, and I'm not judging if you do this. We all do this, because it's easier to ask someone else than for us to think on our own or for us to, I love this term, most of us don't take the time or the energy to Google our own brain. I don't know if I made this up or if I heard this, but whatever. I just think it's a brilliant sentence.
When was the last time you Googled your own brain? Like seriously just really sitting with, “Well, what if I did know?” What could be the first thing if you're trying to figure out what to do when you don't know the how? It's so easy to be like, “I don't know” and ask someone else.
Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't ask people for how to do things. That's not what I'm saying. But I think it's like when you're trying to get to the right decision or et cetera it's so easy for us to pick up the phone and talk to our friends.
Again, nothing wrong with that, but I really encourage you to spend some time asking yourself. You'd be so surprised what comes out of Googling your own brain and also just how much wisdom you already have. All right, well, that's what I have for you. And I will talk to you next week.
Hey, if you're ready to create wealth, I want to invite you to join my program, Money For Women Physicians. You'll join a community of like-minded women physicians, who are committed to creating wealth, just head over to wealthymommd.com/money to learn more.
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